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-   -   Has online car sales killed haggling ? (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=309882)

swil00 Sep 12th, 2020 23:21

Has online car sales killed haggling ?
 
I've not been near a car dealership for a long time now.

Recently, I've been looking at a few 3 year old S90 and V90's, but nobody seems to be willing to move on price, main dealers and other used car places.

Has the art of haggling been killed off by the likes of carwow and other online companies ?

I'm aware that dealers are keen to sell finance, but one dealer told me the screen price is the best that can be done and the only movement would be with trade in.

Harvey1512 Sep 13th, 2020 07:49

I can only hope so. I hate haggling, are you really sure you are getting the best price or is the dealer playing you still? Having a fixed price means you are more likely to be getting the correct price straight away rather than an artificially high price that then gets knocked down accordingly.

Haggling has disappeared in most areas, car sales is just catching up to modern times.

Zebster Sep 13th, 2020 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by swil00 (Post 2664403)
I've not been near a car dealership for a long time now.

Recently, I've been looking at a few 3 year old S90 and V90's, but nobody seems to be willing to move on price, main dealers and other used car places.

Has the art of haggling been killed off by the likes of carwow and other online companies ?

I'm aware that dealers are keen to sell finance, but one dealer told me the screen price is the best that can be done and the only movement would be with trade in.

That was exactly my experience when buying a 3-year old Kia late last year from a main dealer, the salesman was very pleasant and helpful but absolutely refused to budge on price unless I could show him a cheaper local trade example (which, to be fair, I couldn't). However we did haggle significantly over the trade-in allowance on my wife's previous Toyota and ended up getting about double what I expected!

GMcL Sep 13th, 2020 08:00

Or, human nature being what it is, you get the artificially high price for everything with some artificially high prices being higher than others.

The older I get the more I ask for a discount on most things with the exception of grocery shopping because the person operating the till has no authority to discount.

I got £150 off a £600 watch by asking for the managers discount.

green van man Sep 13th, 2020 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by swil00 (Post 2664403)
I've not been near a car dealership for a long time now.

Recently, I've been looking at a few 3 year old S90 and V90's, but nobody seems to be willing to move on price, main dealers and other used car places.

Has the art of haggling been killed off by the likes of carwow and other online companies ?

I'm aware that dealers are keen to sell finance, but one dealer told me the screen price is the best that can be done and the only movement would be with trade in.

Daughter did a deal with a suzuki dealer by telling him what she had seen the car for on car wow. His sticker price was 3k more. She drove off the forecourt with a pre registered car having saved 4k off the sticker price and a grand off the car wow price.

I saved a grand and a half by traveling to Newcastle on Tyne for my volvo, the car I wanted, at a price I deemed fair and cheaper than I could get localy.

Landrover I did not haggle over, it was a private sale and a very fair price so no point. I looked it over, test drove and paid.

Any deal is a good one if both parties are happy with it.
<irrelevant political comment removed>
Paul.

DaveNP Sep 13th, 2020 09:30

I didn't haggle over my last three car purchases, but then with the advantage of the internet, with the price of virtually every car at my fingertips, I didn't bother even looking at cars that I thought were overpriced. Prices have always been subject to market forces, anything is only worth what someone will pay and if a competitor has it cheaper that's where the business goes, in the old days a car salesman would know what his local competition were doing, both on price and service levels and would price accordingly, nowadays everyone can know what everyone is doing so the upfront price has to reflect that.
In terms of trade in the best deal I got was on my Renault Espace when I didn't trade in the Proton we had, the dealer had one on his forecourt already so when I asked the salesman if he really wanted another he was glad to be off of the hook and got me a big discount for money transferred bank to bank immediately by phone.

swil00 Sep 13th, 2020 14:11

Thanks for all the responses.

I still find it a little bizarre looking at used cars knowing there is likely to be no wiggle room. That said, I wouldn't go in asking for their "best price" either.

I'm not looking to trade in, so I would have thought that might be a bonus for the place selling.

I have noticed that the well priced cars, or cars marked at under market value sell very quickly. Perhaps this is due to the lack of negotiation on higher priced examples.

I'll just need to keep and eye out and get in fast !

eternal optimist Sep 13th, 2020 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by swil00 (Post 2664522)
Thanks for all the responses.

I still find it a little bizarre looking at used cars knowing there is likely to be no wiggle room. That said, I wouldn't go in asking for their "best price" either.

I'm not looking to trade in, so I would have thought that might be a bonus for the place selling.

I have noticed that the well priced cars, or cars marked at under market value sell very quickly. Perhaps this is due to the lack of negotiation on higher priced examples.

I'll just need to keep and eye out and get in fast !

No trade in is likely to be a disappointment to the dealer - good used cars are currently in demand, and even if they don’t want to retail in, auction prices are v high at the moment for anything decent.

Wagon Sailor Sep 13th, 2020 23:16

I never found haggling over car prices an enjoyable experience. Buying or selling, I'd have my price, stick to it - and be prepared to walk away. There were exceptions over the years, but not many.

On the other hand, I have asked sellers to throw in 'extras' to an agreed price. Asking a dealer for a fresh MoT is one example.

Of course, haggling of a sort does still exist in the car game - particularly when buying insurance.

Welton Sep 14th, 2020 08:58

I notice certain Car Supermarkets have attractive pricing, I once bought a 4 year old Astra from a car supermarket and the guy said they only make a small profit on each car (£200.00) but shift high volumes.

I guess trade-ins are attractive to dealers because most people cave in and virtually give the car to them for cheaps and then a local 'broker' car dealer will come along pay the dealer more for it and make some profit.

rickyghib Sep 14th, 2020 15:00

I've walked away from a couple of deals on second hand vehicles purely out of principle- despite the fact that the vehicle was still at a good price.

It's just a personal thing, but IMO, if you are selling, there is value in every sale, whether financial or otherwise... Whether or not you're making £50 or £5000 on a vehicle, don't be arrogant enough to say "the price is the price" just because you're only making £50.

That £50 profit, isn't what is keeping your business afloat i'd imagine (notwithstanding the fact it's still probably a couple of hundred quid)...but, being unfriendly, arrogant, etc., likely means I won't return to you for business, nor would I refer anyone to you if they wanted a car.

Examples assuming I want the car:

1) Friendly car dealer, treats me well and gives me the time of day, gives me a little discount, or is very friendly in explaining why he simply can't go lower... outcome: i'd probably buy the car

2) Arrogant car dealer, disinterested in me b/c i'm buying a low value car, gives me very little time, makes me feel unimportant, won't haggle...outcome: I'll walk away.

Re: example 1- assuming all is OK with the car, i'd return to that dealer, refer friends to him, etc. etc.

Re: example 2- never go near him again. He doesn't know my bank balance, whether that car was for my young son, elderly mum, therefore I may have a wad of cash ready to spend on something which is worth his time trying to "deal" on, but he'll never see it, because of how he treats low-value clients.

TL;DR- There is value to be had in every sale, whether its on profit, or future sales/business. Don't overlook the little sale/man.

oilit Sep 14th, 2020 16:09

The cold hard fact is that cars haven't been built or imported for near on 6 months, so there are less new cars to sell, means used car supply isn't where it was, so at the moment 2nd hand cars are fetching stronger prices now than they did in February March.

..........don't even get onto motorhomes - as there is no logic in their 2nd hand prices right now !!

Welton Sep 14th, 2020 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyghib (Post 2664760)

therefore I may have a wad of cash ready to spend on something which is worth his time trying to "deal" on, but he'll never see it, because of how he treats low-value clients.

That's the whole deal with car's eh? I could be the richest man in my street but because I drive a 2005 car I'm seen as poor/struggling/unsuccessful etc.

I've removed myself from car snobbery so care little about other peoples perceptions.

Reminds me of a story years ago where a wealthy 'Tycoon' was out for a run one morning in his sportswear and called into a Luxury Car Dealer to look at the Cars......he was treated like scum......he later bought a small fleet of expensive cars from another Dealer who hadn't judged him in the same way.

Simmy Sep 14th, 2020 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by swil00 (Post 2664403)
I've not been near a car dealership for a long time now.

Recently, I've been looking at a few 3 year old S90 and V90's, but nobody seems to be willing to move on price, main dealers and other used car places.

Has the art of haggling been killed off by the likes of carwow and other online companies ?

I'm aware that dealers are keen to sell finance, but one dealer told me the screen price is the best that can be done and the only movement would be with trade in.

forget dealers have alook at the larger auction groups even volvo dealers buy some of there used cars from these places .ex lease .and pcp end contracts. motorbility. some of these cars can be very low mileage cars. visit a few times before buying to get a feel for how it works:regular_smile:

palwing Sep 15th, 2020 17:12

I love haggling as everything in life is negotiable. You might strike lucky and a dealer needs to shift just one more car “today” to meet his target and get a shed load of money from their bonus. The old adage of “if you don’t ask, you don’t get” applies equally to buying a car as anything else. (Food Supermarkets excluded of course)

I look at it this way. What’s the worse the dealer can say....No? In which case you are no worse off.

One last trick is, if you can’t get a monetary discount then ask for extras instead. ie. free 1st service, longer warranty, car mats, mudflaps, etc.

Unless you are desperate or your current vehicle is knackered, then they need to sell their car more than you need to buy theirs. Walk away from any deal you are not happy with. The world is FULL of 2nd hand and new cars. There will ALWAYS be another one.

Dash300 Sep 15th, 2020 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilit (Post 2664778)
The cold hard fact is that cars haven't been built or imported for near on 6 months, so there are less new cars to sell, means used car supply isn't where it was, so at the moment 2nd hand cars are fetching stronger prices now than they did in February March.

..........don't even get onto motorhomes - as there is no logic in their 2nd hand prices right now !!

Post Covid there will be many a bargain to be had with 2nd hand caravans and motorhomes as people who bought them as a knee jerk means to an end subsequently decide it's not for them and return to their natural preference for the all inclusive holiday packaged drink and food fest as well as the cruises of course which absorb into one vessel the equivalent population of small town.
For those considering such a purchase bide your time.
Never buy new as you lose the VAT element for starters as soon as you pay up.
If you fancy one I would always hire before you buy.
Just my opinion and the market is big enough for both Camping and Holiday Property letting but the financial outlay for a decent motorhome can be eyewatering!!

palwing Sep 15th, 2020 19:19

Slightly off beam.

A friend of mine, and his wife, decided to spend a year travelling around Australia in a camper van. They started in Sydney. After spending a few weeks there looking for the right van, they eventually struck up a deal with a motor home dealer. They told them of their plans and the dealer made them an offer.

He sold them a brand new van with a guaranteed price to buy it back off them at the end of their trip. Subject to bringing it back to Sydney, its condition and not exceeding the mileage (+/- a few 1000 kilometres) of course.

All in all it worked superbly for them and was a lot cheaper than renting a van for a year or trying to sell one at the end of their trip.

Clever!

Welton Sep 16th, 2020 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by palwing (Post 2665135)
Slightly off beam.

A friend of mine, and his wife, decided to spend a year travelling around Australia in a camper van.

I'd love to do that! were it not for being trapped in the work/mortgage/work cycle here. Maybe one day.

I bet once you've spent a year seeing nice things, meeting nice people, having nice(er) food, weather, relaxing and not getting ripped off then the UK will be seriously underwhelming to return to.

palwing Sep 16th, 2020 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welton (Post 2665264)
I'd love to do that! were it not for being trapped in the work/mortgage/work cycle here. Maybe one day.

I bet once you've spent a year seeing nice things, meeting nice people, having nice(er) food, weather, relaxing and not getting ripped off then the UK will be seriously underwhelming to return to.

Having travelled extensively and lived abroad for many years, you are quite right Welton. Although there are still some beautiful areas of the U.K., it pales in comparison of lifestyle and quality of life I have found elsewhere.

However, there comes a certain time in ones life when memories are all you have to “look forward” to. My advice is, never leave it too late to make those lasting memories as you never know what is just around the corner at any stage of life. Good luck with your dreams.

Welton Sep 16th, 2020 10:37

Thank you, I deleted some of what I wanted to say before but I'm the sort of person who steps back slightly to observe my surrounding life.

Typically in the UK all I see is misery; miserable arrogant people obsessed with house prices and wealth, stress, traffic, really bad but expensive food, poor service from all industries, and extremely high living costs.

My two kids are stepping into the world of work and I'm trying to get them to see the wider world out there and not to fall into the trap of working for some company full of fake promises and staff desperate to crap on each other for "success".

palwing Sep 16th, 2020 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welton (Post 2665292)
Thank you, I deleted some of what I wanted to say before but I'm the sort of person who steps back slightly to observe my surrounding life.

Typically in the UK all I see is misery; miserable arrogant people obsessed with house prices and wealth, stress, traffic, really bad but expensive food, poor service from all industries, and extremely high living costs.

My two kids are stepping into the world of work and I'm trying to get them to see the wider world out there and not to fall into the trap of working for some company full of fake promises and staff desperate to crap on each other for "success".

Thanks. One word....TRAVEL.

green van man Sep 16th, 2020 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welton (Post 2665264)
I'd love to do that! were it not for being trapped in the work/mortgage/work cycle here. Maybe one day.

I bet once you've spent a year seeing nice things, meeting nice people, having nice(er) food, weather, relaxing and not getting ripped off then the UK will be seriously underwhelming to return to.

As one whom has always enjoyed life, including my work, I tend to think life is what you make it, no matter where you are.
I have a job that affords me a comfortable lifestyle, enough holidays to enjoy traveling and a tin tent to stay in when I do so. I have yet to fully explore GB and have no particular wish to travel abroad just to see it. Maybe once I have seen all of this country and what it has to offer.
I have always found nice places to eat when out and about and at reasonable prices. Probably the worse meal I ever had was in a 2 star Michelin restraint. The Sunday roast in the pub up the road was far nicer to my mind, but perhaps I am easily pleased.

I have been abroad, it was an interesting experience, I went to visit my daughter when she was living in Bangkok. Interesting as it was, had daughter not been there I doubt I would of spent the money it cost just to see it. I suppose it added something to my life experience, but a visit to Skegness would of done so as well.

The only foreign travel I really want is a road trip above the artic circle to see the northern lights in the LandRover. I could perhaps see them in Northern Scotland but chances are better in Norway and the road trip would be the making of it, maybe next February or March, lurgi permitting or the year after if not.

Think the point I am trying to make is look for the positives not the negatives, don't look at what others have but concentrate on what will make you happy. Once contentment is achived, the rest doesnot matter.

Paul.

palwing Sep 16th, 2020 18:49

I originally wrote a long reply to your post Green Van Man, detailing the differences between the places I have lived, worked and visited outside the UK and their far better quality of life, etc. (Senegal excluded!) But then I remembered you mentioned a trip to Skegness was just as good, so I deleted the lot. Like Blackpool, it’s a place you visit once and never go back.

I am pleased to hear you are happy with the UK today and it satisfies you. The Brecon Beacons, Snowdonia, Lake District, are just a few of the picturesque places. However, I have advised my children and my grandchildren to leave the UK as soon as able, as it’s on a one way trip downhill morally and socially. Luckily my daughter and her children have already moved out and their quality of life is a huge improvement on living here.

If the NHS had not fatally mutilated me recently (read about it in the Press when released), me and my wife would have joined her too by now. Unfortunately, it’s too late for us now.

Apologies to all for being off topic.

biggbn Sep 16th, 2020 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by palwing (Post 2665415)
I originally wrote a long reply to your post Green Van Man, detailing the differences between the places I have lived, worked and visited outside the UK and their far better quality of life, etc. (Senegal excluded!) But then I remembered you mentioned a trip to Skegness was just as good, so I deleted the lot. Like Blackpool, it’s a place you visit once and never go back.

I am pleased to hear you are happy with the UK today and it satisfies you. The Brecon Beacons, Snowdonia, Lake District, are just a few of the picturesque places. However, I have advised my children and my grandchildren to leave the UK as soon as able, as it’s on a one way trip downhill morally and socially. Luckily my daughter and her children have already moved out and their quality of life is a huge improvement on living here.

If the NHS had not fatally mutilated me recently (read about it in the Press when released), me and my wife would have joined her too by now. Unfortunately, it’s too late for us now.

Apologies to all for being off topic.

I adore where I live, wouldn't change it for the world.

Harvey1512 Sep 16th, 2020 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by palwing (Post 2665415)
I originally wrote a long reply to your post Green Van Man, detailing the differences between the places I have lived, worked and visited outside the UK and their far better quality of life, etc. (Senegal excluded!) But then I remembered you mentioned a trip to Skegness was just as good, so I deleted the lot. Like Blackpool, it’s a place you visit once and never go back.

I am pleased to hear you are happy with the UK today and it satisfies you. The Brecon Beacons, Snowdonia, Lake District, are just a few of the picturesque places. However, I have advised my children and my grandchildren to leave the UK as soon as able, as it’s on a one way trip downhill morally and socially. Luckily my daughter and her children have already moved out and their quality of life is a huge improvement on living here.

If the NHS had not fatally mutilated me recently (read about it in the Press when released), me and my wife would have joined her too by now. Unfortunately, it’s too late for us now.

Apologies to all for being off topic.

Where is the nirvana you are telling your children to move to? People love to put down this country, I am well aware it is not perfect, but I'm not sure I've come across the country that is. Where should we all be moving to?

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 00:55

You are correct Harvey 1512, nirvana does not exist anywhere in the world today. Unless you are Richard Branson and own a private island somewhere perhaps. Even he must be struggling to find a place nowadays. It is getting harder all the time to escape the rat race as such. Almost everywhere is being sucked into the malaise of modern society today.

I don’t tell my kids where to move to, as it is their choice and their lives. What I do say it that during my life time, I have witnessed a slow decline in the moral fibre of life in the U.K. My advice to them is to spread their wings and explore further afield. Have a look and seek a better quality of life than I believe this country will offer them (and their kids) during their life time. I hope they find it and above all, wish them good health and happiness what ever they decide. At the end of the day, we all have our own path in life to follow.

If you are happy with the way things are here, then stay and enjoy. I just know I have experienced better elsewhere and feel in a reasonable position to knowledgeably make a comparison. Unfortunately, recent unforeseen circumstances mean I am now stuck here for the rest of my life, never to travel again. It appears, this is not likely to be much longer in the big scheme of things, else I would also seek my “nirvana”, which is not where I am today. Good luck (and good health) for your future.

Edit: we should start a “meaning of life thread” :confused_smile:

green van man Sep 17th, 2020 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by palwing (Post 2665415)
I originally wrote a long reply to your post Green Van Man, detailing the differences between the places I have lived, worked and visited outside the UK and their far better quality of life, etc. (Senegal excluded!) But then I remembered you mentioned a trip to Skegness was just as good, so I deleted the lot. Like Blackpool, it’s a place you visit once and never go back.

I am pleased to hear you are happy with the UK today and it satisfies you. The Brecon Beacons, Snowdonia, Lake District, are just a few of the picturesque places. However, I have advised my children and my grandchildren to leave the UK as soon as able, as it’s on a one way trip downhill morally and socially. Luckily my daughter and her children have already moved out and their quality of life is a huge improvement on living here.

If the NHS had not fatally mutilated me recently (read about it in the Press when released), me and my wife would have joined her too by now. Unfortunately, it’s too late for us now.

Apologies to all for being off topic.

I appreciate it is horses for courses. I have found a niche that suites me and I can only speak for myself.
I take your point about the moral decline in Britain and too an extent agree, however I would suggest the same would be said of everywhere. All countries have areas visitors don't go. Certainly there were areas of Bangkok I was advised to avoid. The Thai people I did meet were very pleasant and helpful, but I have met similar in Cardiff Dundee and many places between. That is a product of people rather than places.

Wether travel broadens the mind or not is debatable, ex pat communities are hardly assimilating into the local culture, rather they are importing their way of life into differing surroundings and often exploiting local conditions to live cheaper.

A point in question, when abroad do you tip as you would in Britain or at the local rate?

I was castigated for tipping too much when in Thailand, when I was there 1000 Bhat was =£20, if service was good and people pleasant I would leave a tip of 50 Bhat or 10% of the bill whichever was the greater, 50 Bhat would not buy a coffee in UK, to many of the service industry workers it was an appreciable amount. Just by visiting their country I was disturbing the status quo, but considering I had flown half way around the world and was staying in hotels they could never afford to I could afford to tip at those levels, others in the party exploited those local workers by tipping meanly even though they could afford more. Parsimony is not an endearing traight.

Paul.

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 08:21

Hi Green Van Man. By the way, I used to be a white van man “in a previous life”. The company Merc Sprinter was awesome when loaded up, but a nightmare when light as the back end skipped all over the place. This was in the days before trackers and speed restrictors were fitted by employers. Loved it.

Anyway. Yes, you are right about no go areas. One example I have come across is a place called L’Ariane just north of Nice in south east France. My French colleague told me never to even drive through there. If you Google it and look at some photos, I think you will see why. I have mentioned before, the UK has some beautiful places and I rank them as enjoyable as many beautiful places I have seen abroad. But as you point out, it is often more about people rather than just location. Couldn’t agree more.

As for tipping. Always a tricky subject for us Brits. I tend to tip at “local rates”. However, if I experience extra good service, then I tend to be more generous. In many countries, such as you mention, tips are their main source of income and I always keep that in mind. However, you raise a good point about altering their “status quo”. Personally I would rather be happy with my conscience than my wallet and tip accordingly.

Integration is an interesting conundrum and this country is a fine example of how it does not always happen. But we are not openly allowed to discuss that without digging up a can of worms. So best left avoided. As I wrote once in a letter published in a travel magazine, “there are those that do and those that don’t as well as those that will and those that just won’t”. It sort of makes sense I hope and for whatever reason, some just like to live as “Brits abroad” (Spain?) where as we on the other hand, like to embrace the local culture where able. Language barriers are often broken down easily over a few glasses of the local tipple and a lot of hand gesticulations. Usually very humorous for both parties. Saying that, learning local customs and the pitfalls of what is offensive or not is always a nightmare. Learning “please and thank you” in their language often goes a long way.

At the end of the day, differences in Culture seems to be a major stumbling block, rather than individuals themselves. When one culture fails to accept the culture of their host and import their interpretation into their new “home”, I feel that is where the problems begin. But once again, I am touching on dodgy ground, so will leave it there.

Have a good day and drive safely? It’s very busy out there, so I hear.

Dippydog Sep 17th, 2020 08:41

Although I'm not widely traveled personally for all this countrys faults[and there are many] I'd live nowhere else in the world.Of my three kids the eldest-a daughter-has holidayed abroad many times but made no mention of a wish to live elsewhere.The second-also a daughter-has never set foot outside this country while the third-a son-lived in Sweden for work for a few years before transferring to the USA where he now lives and says he'd not come back to live as there is nothing here for him.Each of them are I believe happy with their choices and fair play to them.Each to their own and do as thought best for yourselves/families.
Back on topic I always found it a curiosity that people would go to a shop and see a TV/washing machine/cooker etc and pay the price on the sticker yet when it came to buying a car-private or trade-they'd haggle to get a penny off.

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 09:05

1 Attachment(s)
Dippydog. I guess if you are happy with your lot then that’s a good enough reason to stay where you are. Notice I avoided mentioning your town in case I was also censored by the craziness of the world today. I would say though, if you have never travelled, how do you know there are not better places elsewhere? But it comes down to what a person is happy with for their life. No one else can live it for you. By the way, I have found going on holiday somewhere is not the same as living there.

By the way, an ex colleague of mine was born and bred in, dare I type Scunthorpe? He lived in Exeter Road. My wife researched his family tree and found that his ancestors were major builders there (dare not to type it twice!) and built many of the house in and around Exeter Road. Another of his ancestors was also the Mayor in the 30’s. I believe there are a lot of his distant family still in the area. The family name was Spavin and his family were renown for being the world roller skating champions in the early 1900’s plus speed cycling champions. Lots of old press articles about them at the time, including their photographs. I won’t tell you his full name to protect the innocent. Photograph of the famous family below. Fascinating.


Welton Sep 17th, 2020 09:49

Sorry to hear of your medical woes palwing, sounds awful for you and your family I can only offer best wishes going forward.

I think what I meant about the UK was the work/life balance is way off where it should be, for me anyway work demands a lot of my time and often stops me having time off - in this respect I turn my frustration to everything I hate about the UK. I know in other countries like New Zealand and Australia their Leisure Time is a very important part of daily/weekly life and work is secondary - it's not like that here and all the worse for it.

I'm not unhappy here by any means, in fact I'm quite happy to sit back and watch the madness, and if I can find a nice spot in the sun and sip nice coffee watching the world go by I'm in my element and will have a content smile on my face.

I like my home and garden and will potter around for hours on weekends in my own little world, again more than happy and I don't want for much.

What I don't like though is greed - this is something which has grown in the last 20 to 30 years in the UK and it's everywhere.

Ask yourself this question: when you see these poor countries and you see kids playing in the street in bare feet; they have absolutely nothing but are happy. In the UK if you can manage to get a child away from their internet for 5 minutes you'll likely find a depressed and confused soul - so sad and this is one of the things I dislike about how the UK has 'progressed' - the internet skewing kids visions of reality and computer games drawing them in to addictive traits. This won't be fixed but in a simple form this comparison I've made holds a lot of truth IMO.

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 11:20

3 Attachment(s)
Thanks Welton.

Unfortunately, due to a surgeon inexplicably removing major parts of my insides required for life, I am where I am with regards to my health. My future is now in the hands of others, including the big man upstairs. To say I have a tough few months ahead of me is an understatement. However, on the plus side, the Volvo forums will be a lot quieter for a while, if not longer. Being housebound and stuck under a blanket in a chair for 8 months now, I seem to spend far too much time here. lol As mentioned, watch out for my story in the Press one day. There will also undoubtedly be a few medical papers written about me too, so my 15 minutes of fame may last a bit longer than most. I must add, that I am so glad that I have travelled and done as much as I have in my life as I would be even MORE cheesed off if I had not and then realised it was too late to start.

I know exactly where you are coming from and you are quite right about the life work balance. Some live to work, others work to live. Finding a good compromise somewhere in between is a possible solution. Although I prefer not working (when healthy) and just enjoying life to be the most enjoyable way. I have met quite a few people who have said they would not retire early as “What would I do? It must be boring.” That told me a lot about their lack of imagination and sense of adventure. But there you go, it’s their life.

You mention Australia and we have spent a lot of time there too. We have 5 grandchildren, 2 of which live in WA and 3 in the UK. The life style differences between our UK and Ozzy grandkids is stark. Your Internet comparison couldn’t be more apt.

The Ozzy kids live an extremely active life, beach, swimming (50 metre pools) surfing, gymnastics, football, running, cycling, great climate and social lives. It is generally a higher standard of living in every sense, including diet. Even the schools are so much more patriotic, forward thinking and encouraging of an active, healthy lifestyle. It’s normal for them from a very early age. You can see why many Australians are so confident. But as mentioned before, there are still areas of concern in certain parts of WA as in all parts of the real world. Just less concentrated perhaps?

Whilst my UK grandchildren are in what many would consider a good standard of living, their lives revolve around occasional sporting events, family cycle rides and the Internet. Saying that, I think the climate here has a big influence on being active in the UK, especially in the winter. Unfortunately we can do nothing about that. I have included some photos of my Ozzy grandchildren (10 and 6) during their WINTER. The beach is just across the road from where they live and it’s spring now. Gorgeous. I will add it gets blooming hot in the summer months and there is a fly season around October/November which drives me nuts. Hence the Ozzy wave. I stay indoors during that time or wear a net. Strangely the Ozzies seem to tolerate it. lol I will add, it’s not cheap living in Oz, but there are plenty of opportunities to earn good money to have a very decent lifestyle with a fantastic life/work balance. They take “laid back” to whole different level.


Apologies for going WAY off topic. But it keeps me occupied between my trips to the loo, bed and my chair whilst longingly looking out my window with my memories.

Zebster Sep 17th, 2020 11:47

Hmm, having lived in NZ for several years, I can honestly say that I much prefer the UK; no offence to the lovely Kiwis and their wonderful country, but I generally find life more interesting here. And - having made several extended work trips to Australia - I found it to be an unbearably hot and dull place... it's true when people joke that there's more culture in an empty yoghurt pot!

I love the UK and wouldn't want to live in any other country.

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 11:59

Unfortunately never managed to get to NZ, although a few of my Victorian ancestors did. Funny how people from abroad want to come to the UK whilst a lot from the U.K. want to move abroad. Must be some sort of psychology there yet to be discovered. lol.

At least you tried Zebster and found it not to your liking, so came back. I have always told my kids, NEVER be too proud to change your mind.

It reminds me of when I used to tour on a Goldwing motorcycle. Many other bikers used to say they were rubbish and I might as well have a car. My usual reply was, “which Goldwing had they driven that they didn’t like?”. That usually finished the conversation as I never had anyone admit they had ridden one to justify their claim. I find that is often the case when people say they don’t want to live abroad.

I once had an elderly local person justify why she had never been abroad was because all of her friends had tried it, “but they all came back”. Sort of missed the point somewhere?

Zebster Sep 17th, 2020 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by palwing (Post 2665586)
Unfortunately never managed to get to NZ, although a few of my Victorian ancestors did. Funny how people from abroad want to come to the UK whilst a lot from the U.K. want to move abroad. Must be some sort of psychology there yet to be discovered. lol.

At least you tried Zebster and found it not to your liking, so came back. I have always told my kids, NEVER be too proud to change your mind.

It reminds me of when I used to tour on a Goldwing motorcycle. Many other bikers used to say they were rubbish and I might as well have a car. My usual reply was, “which Goldwing had they driven that they didn’t like?”. That usually finished the conversation as I never had anyone admit they had ridden one to justify their claim. I find that is often the case when people say they don’t want to live abroad.

I once had an elderly local person justify why she had never been abroad was because all of her friends had tried it, “but they all came back”. Sort of missed the point somewhere?

I didn't emigrate, it was a long-term work secondment! However my wife and I went there having decided that if we liked it and I was offered a permanent position then we'd probably remain there... we actually sold our UK house before going.

There is a definite element of 'the grass is always greener..." amongst those who emigrate between Australasia and the UK and it's definitely a two-way thing.

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 12:32

All credit to you for having the balls to take the secondment. Many would have bottled it. Better to try and fail than not try at all. You learn something new from every experience. So in that respect, perceived failure is actually a success.

An old Chinese proverb says something like, “If you stay on the same path of life, you will end up where you are headed.” I liked the uncertainty of going “off piste” occasionally. Far more interesting.

Edit:One draw back of being in Australia is that you get on a plane in Sydney, fly six hours and.....you are STILL in Australia. Bali is not so far though, so not too bad. Europe on the other hand does offer a lot of different geography, languages, etc. all within a stones throw of each other and is a definite plus point. I love Switzerland, especially the alpine areas, where as my wife loves Austria. I reckon the Sound of Music has a lot to answer for! lol

S60RDesign Sep 17th, 2020 15:54

You can still haggle but they might not reduce the price unless you take their finance etc...otherwise you can still ask for a full tank of fuel and mats or other things like cosmetic fixes which are quite likely to be accepted.

The market is odd at the minute as there isn't the used stock. Could be worth waiting for a few months, unless we end up in lockdown again :rolleyes:

green van man Sep 17th, 2020 17:18

Well palwing, I'm one of the not retired. I could of 2 years ago but chose not to.

With 44 days holiday and living in a lovely area my take was if I continue working I can afford my expencive hobbies, go on holiday and not worry unduly about the costs , run 2 cars, one a hobby vehicle. Maintain the darkroom, keeping plenty of paper and chemicals to hand, and keep my anolouge cameras supplied with film. These days I rarely buy new camera kit but there are always temptations in the Ham radio world I am prone to give into. Expencive hobbies I could not maintain on pension, and I enjoy my work, so why not carry on.

With 7 grandkids spread far and wide it's a treck to visit them, 3 in Cardiff 112 miles away, one in Manchester 200 miles away and 2 in Scotland 450 miles away, while the 7th is currently living in China.
I recon a trip to visit the Scottish branch of the family will set me back £1000 by the time I get back home, fuel, caravan pitches, meals out and treats, and we try to get up to see them twice a year in normal years, Cardiff is a day trip and is often spontaneous, might not see them for a couple of months then 3 times in a month.
This requires more disposable income than my pensions can afford.
That said I am very much a work to live man, but do belive in a fair days work for a fair days pay.

I live in an area that many people move into to retire, locals recon that if an incomer stays more than 4 years they will probably stay for life. Surprising the number of houses you see come back on the market in 4 year cycles.
I moved in18 years ago, it will be box time before I move out..
It is a differing way of life to my previous more relaxed, and I enjoy it fully, it suits me down to the ground and my holidays afford me the variety I need to continue to appreciate it.

Paul.

palwing Sep 17th, 2020 18:00

Hi green van man. I am guessing you live on the west side of South Wales? Might be wrong though, so please don’t feel obliged to reply to that.

Whatever, we know south west Wales quite well as the in-laws retired to live near Carmarthen at Llanllawddog and then Llanddarog. Beautiful part of the world. After about 10 years there, they eventually moved to an island in the Mediterranean. We particularly liked Manorbier, Saundersfoot and of course Tenby. Not so keen on Swansea though. An ex colleague of mine (older than me) has just moved from Llanarth to just over the border in England to be nearer to support services for him and his wife in old age. He has lived in Llanarth for as long as I can remember.

I can certainly see the attraction of the area and we even considered buying a place there ourselves at one time. You certainly get a lot of property for your money in some very picturesque areas. The weather can be a nightmare though. Rain, low cloud and a bit windy at times. Even the sheep are constantly leaning over and look through squinty eyes. Mind you, having lived in north Wales they are more normal down south.

As for working into retirement, it’s a purely a personal choice. One that I chose to take (retirement that is) a long time ago and due to my circumstances now, I am so glad I did. There is no way I can ever experience even a small percentage the things I have done or seen in the past 15 years now. Memories are all I have left. Although my circumstances are unique, serious ill health can strike at anytime to anyone destroying even the best laid plans in an instant.

I hope you continue to enjoy your life style and good health for many years to come.

By the way, Scotland is also a lovely place, but the weather is still a problem. :regular_smile:

biggbn Sep 17th, 2020 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by palwing (Post 2665499)
You are correct Harvey 1512, nirvana does not exist anywhere in the world today. Unless you are Richard Branson and own a private island somewhere perhaps. Even he must be struggling to find a place nowadays. It is getting harder all the time to escape the rat race as such. Almost everywhere is being sucked into the malaise of modern society today.

I don’t tell my kids where to move to, as it is their choice and their lives. What I do say it that during my life time, I have witnessed a slow decline in the moral fibre of life in the U.K. My advice to them is to spread their wings and explore further afield. Have a look and seek a better quality of life than I believe this country will offer them (and their kids) during their life time. I hope they find it and above all, wish them good health and happiness what ever they decide. At the end of the day, we all have our own path in life to follow.

If you are happy with the way things are here, then stay and enjoy. I just know I have experienced better elsewhere and feel in a reasonable position to knowledgeably make a comparison. Unfortunately, recent unforeseen circumstances mean I am now stuck here for the rest of my life, never to travel again. It appears, this is not likely to be much longer in the big scheme of things, else I would also seek my “nirvana”, which is not where I am today. Good luck (and good health) for your future.

Edit: we should start a “meaning of life thread” :confused_smile:

Whereas I have great faith in the youth of today and feel it is their elders who are letting them down. Look at the houses of Parliament, their elders and betters squabbling like schoolchildren. If there is an erosion of public morals where are the young learning it? Look no further than their generally morally frivolous elders. I have faith in people. I love the diversity of views, cultures, religions living side by side and sharing each others cultures, regardless what the media would have you believe. I leave my house, walk five minutes and am in beautiful untouched forest. I want to promote optimism, not negativity, particularly to the younger generations. So many older people are doom mongers and faithless curmudgeons


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