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-   140/164 Series General (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   modified 164 (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=172937)

beario Feb 10th, 2013 20:22

modified 164
 
hi all bit of a lurker,i have the chance to buy a very tidy 164 straight 6...
i love the shape,but was wondering is there an engine swop kit as such...for sat fitting the newer 5 cylinder 20v turbo or something else...cant seem to find many modified ones...there must be some around...thanks...

Clan Feb 10th, 2013 20:37

The obvious is a 6 cylinder 960 engine much lighter and more powerful ... but the original 164 engine is so silky smooth .. once you have the gearbox you could then fit any volvo alloy 4 , 5 or 6 cylinder engine from the 1990's

guitarman Feb 10th, 2013 20:55

Reason there are few modified ones is that the B30 is an excellent and powerful engine. With a few mods it can be made more so.
Don't exchange engines you will only devalue the car and achieve nothing.

Clan Feb 10th, 2013 21:05

difficult one , i assumed there was some problem with the original engine , its not that powerful at 145 bhp and going to one extreme , a volvo T4 4 cylinder turbo engine weighs half as much and can have nearly double the power with reasonable economy .
On the other hand keep the original all cast iron engine , The marine version with 3 stromberg carbs is 175 bhp ( same as the 164E injection version ) Or you could fit 3 x 45 dcoe weber carbs and tubular exhaust ...If you can find a 6 cylinder performance camshaft and a few minor head mods you could make over 200 bhp .( same power as the 960 6 cylinder ) however expect drastic fuel consumption!

beario Feb 10th, 2013 21:13

has anyone heard of a 5 pot 20v turbo engine being fitted...

guitarman Feb 10th, 2013 21:36

Better to buy a Subaru Impreza.....

john h Feb 11th, 2013 19:30

How much power are you aiming for? Unless you want huge power, don't assume you have to dump the b30. This one has triple weber 45 carbs and I think I remember reading it has circa 200bhp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEQlunOqKx4

Mine is having a supercharger and mapped fuel injection.... but it's in peices at the moment!

Cheers

John

Brock05 Feb 12th, 2013 19:42

There is no reason why it couldn't be done, I have seen pics of 140's with 20v turbos so the principle is roughly the same, assuming you are handy with electronics. Tuning the existing B30 or the swap would both be interesting upgrades, Its nice to see a different spin on the older models, particularly if it means a vehicle otherwise unused is put back in the road again. The Retro Rides forum can be a good source of inspiration. Good luck & keep us posted whichever option you choose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ywCEXuvTF0

Lucien Feb 13th, 2013 13:34

Chevvy V8 anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSEtz8JnuAQ

arcturus Feb 13th, 2013 14:44

On a similar vein, what would be the most cost effective way to get a bit more power out of a standard B20b without compromising its driveability

beario Feb 22nd, 2013 15:01

hi got the car,and i am just going through a few perished items...
does anywhere do 164 parts??
i am after a steering coupling the rubber part,and is there anything else you guys would recomend to crispen up the steering???
is there anywhere to get repair sections,bottom fronts of wings is rusty,and the windscreen scuttle needs repairing on both corners,any advice would be great cheers...

another question has anyone changed the ignition set up to accuspark electronic before???wondering if you remove the ballast module,cheers...

woolfie1948 Feb 22nd, 2013 23:39

My first port of call for parts for the 164 would be the same as for other older Volvos, that is Simon at Brookhouse.
If you want to try an accuspark then speak to them, they were very helpful when I went there, though I have yet to try one. From memory I don't think they said it is essential to ditch the ballast resistor but it is recommended, however, when mine failed a number of contributors to this forum told me it wouuld be best to get rid of this item anyway rather than replace it, so I did.
It is of course essential to change your coil for a suitable one if you also do this whether or not you keep your points.
I bought my new coil from accuspark as I went to see them as they are close to where I live, they were very helpful and reasonable on price, otherwise I would have gone to Brookhouse as I do for most things Volvo I need.

john h Feb 23rd, 2013 08:19

Hi,

Can you post some photos of the car, I'd love to see it.

If you look through my thread you'll find relevant rust repairs

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=60815

I don't know of any repair panels for front wings, you'll need to make some I think. There was a post on here offering two new-old-stock Volvo 164 wings, but they have surface rust and were expensive at £250. Don't know if they are stilll available.

Good luck with the project. I'd really encourage you to take photos and document it on a thread on here. It's really worthwhile to do it, in terms of motivation, advice and ideas. And as a result of doing my project thread, I'm now in touch with several new friends around the world.

John

arcturus Feb 23rd, 2013 10:04

Try the 123 dizy. Highly reccomend it + high performance Boch coil.

beario Feb 23rd, 2013 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by woolfie1948 (Post 1359870)
My first port of call for parts for the 164 would be the same as for other older Volvos, that is Simon at Brookhouse.
If you want to try an accuspark then speak to them, they were very helpful when I went there, though I have yet to try one. From memory I don't think they said it is essential to ditch the ballast resistor but it is recommended, however, when mine failed a number of contributors to this forum told me it wouuld be best to get rid of this item anyway rather than replace it, so I did.
It is of course essential to change your coil for a suitable one if you also do this whether or not you keep your points.
I bought my new coil from accuspark as I went to see them as they are close to where I live, they were very helpful and reasonable on price, otherwise I would have gone to Brookhouse as I do for most things Volvo I need.

Wolfe what car do you have then I'm local to accuspark too...

beario Feb 23rd, 2013 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus (Post 1360036)
Try the 123 dizy. Highly reccomend it + high performance Boch coil.

Hi what's the 123 dizzy?...

beario Feb 23rd, 2013 23:08

3 Attachment(s)
Pics as requested...

john h Feb 24th, 2013 08:05

Looks good, but it's very low! Does it drive OK at that ride height?

John

arcturus Feb 24th, 2013 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by beario (Post 1360554)
Hi what's the 123 dizzy?...

http://www.123ignition.nl/
Pricey but worth it for hastle free, point less ignition.

woolfie1948 Feb 24th, 2013 11:30

My 164 is a late 1972 auto. similar colour to yours I think.
Yours makes mine look very tall! What size are your wheels and tyres?
Hope you enjoy it.
You can get loads of help and advice from this forum if you need or want it, it has been a massive help to me.
Jonathan

beario Feb 24th, 2013 14:16

hi they are 15 inch alloys with new tyres...i will be selling very soon as i intend to get some new springs and 18 inch wheels,as although it drives fine as it is its a bit low for me...

beario Feb 24th, 2013 21:13

audrey old mailed you cheers...

beario Mar 6th, 2013 00:47

I have just managed to get some 8j 18"bbs style wheels 5x108...so my 15" alloys and new tyres will be available if anyone is interested...ones in picture...please pm me...thanks...

beario Mar 13th, 2013 23:09

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...psaf45fcb1.jpg

rock on Mar 14th, 2013 06:58

Just found your thread thought i would say hi over here aswell..
Very nice looking volvo.

beario Mar 24th, 2013 12:43

been repairing the pass front wing over last week or so,had some rot around the wing mirror holes,so have cut the square out,treated it and fabricated a new piece in,and the same on the bottom rear of wing,cut out and re made...also done the same on the drivers windscreen scuttle,someone had painted the car in 2005 and done a poor repair which had become like a tea bag and wet feet are not to clever...lol...
oh and fitted accuspark,plugs,coil and rotor arm...£51.00 all in...bargain...

volAlex Jul 26th, 2013 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarman (Post 1351248)
Reason there are few modified ones is that the B30 is an excellent and powerful engine. With a few mods it can be made more so.
Don't exchange engines you will only devalue the car and achieve nothing.

Hi ,
I agree . keep the engine and mod it .

and good luck


Alex

Iroll13 Jul 26th, 2013 22:28

Love the concept
 
I'm am just about to begin. I have a 144 auto and its thirsty and sluggish, so was thinking of an engine swap too. I was going down the obvious route of Zetec and Type 9 box to give the old girl a bit of get up and go. Going for lowered stance too, although struggling to find alloys.

Anyway, await with interest while I get the welding torch out. Anyone reading lower edge rear wing panels are going cheap on ebay at moment from a place in Barnsley.

guitarman Jul 27th, 2013 03:45

Sorry- but I just can't understand why you would want to do that to an old Volvo. Why waste a lot of time and money trying to turn a rather sedate 40yr old car into a modern performance vehicle. I just think you are missing the whole point of owning a classic car. If you need a high performance car go and buy one, there are plenty of very affordable Celicas, Skylines, Imprezas about at the moment.
Jimmy

Clan Jul 27th, 2013 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iroll13 (Post 1456876)
I'm am just about to begin. I have a 144 auto and its thirsty and sluggish, so was thinking of an engine swap too. I was going down the obvious route of Zetec and Type 9 box to give the old girl a bit of get up and go. Going for lowered stance too, although struggling to find alloys.

Anyway, await with interest while I get the welding torch out. Anyone reading lower edge rear wing panels are going cheap on ebay at moment from a place in Barnsley.

arghh! why not convert to B20E which isnt sluggish .
OR fit a modern volvo T5 engine or even a normal 2.4 5 cylinder and M90 gearbox :-)

mad matt Jul 27th, 2013 20:18

you can build a b20 like this one

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...%20B20/011.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...%20B20/010.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...%20B20/007.jpg

Iroll13 Jul 27th, 2013 22:45

Totally understand 'Classic' I owe a Triumph TR7 with 24K on the clock and would never mess with that as its factory fresh. On the other hand the Volvo has an interior colour that cannot be reproduced in that colour. The engine swap is less about performance and more about economical everyday driver. No point in spending hours welding it back together, painting etc not to use it.

Each to their own!

KlingKlangMan Jul 27th, 2013 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarman (Post 1456938)
Sorry- but I just can't understand why you would want to do that to an old Volvo. Why waste a lot of time and money trying to turn a rather sedate 40yr old car into a modern performance vehicle. I just think you are missing the whole point of owning a classic car. If you need a high performance car go and buy one, there are plenty of very affordable Celicas, Skylines, Imprezas about at the moment.
Jimmy

I think the old "Classic With Performance" car is actually one of the original "Custom" cars, if you think about the old American Hot Rods. I like the idea of a 144 with a modern engine, maybe a T5 engine. That way you get the good looks of the classic car, and the chance to embarrass the Chav in his slammed Focus, so that's a Win-Win if in my opinion. :D

heckflosse Jul 28th, 2013 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarman (Post 1456938)
Sorry- but I just can't understand why you would want to do that to an old Volvo. Why waste a lot of time and money trying to turn a rather sedate 40yr old car into a modern performance vehicle. I just think you are missing the whole point of owning a classic car. If you need a high performance car go and buy one, there are plenty of very affordable Celicas, Skylines, Imprezas about at the moment.
Jimmy

With respect, It is his car to do as he likes with
..Clan's idea re fitting a better Volvo drive train makes more sense, and might be less frowned on by the Insurance company.Personally, It'd be SBC Chevrolet/manual, but I'm old fashioned ( its a generation thing, you know...)
Having driven an early 144 auto, I can remember the almost complete lack of performance (my subsequent 140s were all manual, and none of those were that lively either).The only 164 I have driven was converted from injection to carbs, and went well enough.Still short on pedals though.
the main advantage of Old Volvos for engine swapping is they have a large engine bay, bulletproof back axle and decent brakes.
Compared to roof chops etc, an engine swap is at least reversible should values go through the roof.

Iroll13 Jul 28th, 2013 15:34

Didn't mean to start a debate! Whoops.

I understand everyone's point of view on this issue. As I have said I would not mess with a pure example, but mine is far from pure.

I love old cars and especially old Volvo's, I spent my summer hols in the boot of a Volvo 245 playing with my toy cars as we dragged the caravan about (Love the safety of the 70's).

Bottom line is, I want to enjoy the old girl as much as possible and a B20 with BW35 is just too costly to run on a daily basis, but one thing is for sure this one is not going on to the banger car track despite many offers.

Lets celebrate diversity. Group hug people!

KlingKlangMan Jul 28th, 2013 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iroll13 (Post 1457651)
Didn't mean to start a debate! Whoops.

I understand everyone's point of view on this issue. As I have said I would not mess with a pure example, but mine is far from pure.

I love old cars and especially old Volvo's, I spent my summer hols in the boot of a Volvo 245 playing with my toy cars as we dragged the caravan about (Love the safety of the 70's).

Bottom line is, I want to enjoy the old girl as much as possible and a B20 with BW35 is just too costly to run on a daily basis, but one thing is for sure this one is not going on to the banger car track despite many offers.

Lets celebrate diversity. Group hug people!

I'm glad you're not selling to the Banger boys!
As for the BW35 gearbox, I managed to break four of them, leading me to think they're not that great. Then I broke two Ford A4LD gearboxes, which made me think it was ME! THEN I got a Mercedes with an auto, and that bugger was indestructible!

As someone said; it's your car, so you can do what you like. If you go with the engine/transmission swap try to stick with a Volvo donor, just for continuity. Has anyone put a T4 in a 144 before?

AndrewBrown Feb 16th, 2021 02:15

Holy thread resurrection batman!!!! 7ish years on??
 
I'm pretty sure I was not on this forum in 2013 and some people might think that's a good thing but.....(I just read it as results form a search I did on tuning the B30 engine)

I have seen other posts in other threads maybe on other forums cant remember where saying tuning the B30 is futile

they say the crank and block wont handle the power produced etc,
now I have read some dubious posts on forums in my time but that just take the
cake. the block is immensely strong as is the crank.

The standard cranks used in the cars were the same ones in the Penta motors
in Marine applications at a totally reliable 170HP
the standard 164 was between 145HP and 160HP,
depending on the year and fuel system and cam. these power figures are comparable with other 3 litre 6 cylinder motors of the era like the Ford Essex 3.0 and others, in fact the Volvo was more powerful and stronger than most of that era on par with the Mercedes Benz engines of the time, So personally I would tune the B30 because as mentioned earlier an engine swap takes away from the classic status and character of the car.

There are no stroker kits or posh cranks for the B30, as far as I can find there is some for B20 motors to get 2.5 litres and a 3.0 litre B23/B230

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4b28ZScLjM

this video just shows what can be done with a B30

The B30 in this car is running a power output of 644HP and 800nm of torque (in the comments as an answer
from the owner to a question asked about the power output)

yeah just so you read that right SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR,

easier too because its in the car already. Also there have been plenty of 164 club rally cars pushing out 200HP+ in Sweden Finland Norway etc a great sounding engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRjIHeykls

probably the best classic Volvo tuning site in the world loads of good stuff for the B30... https://www.kgtrimning.org/1.html?

just wish my 164 was manual but I do have the column shift automatic though a cool combination
but not as cool as the column shift manual M400 combination, yes it exists but not really that good for performance driving, all the parts are shown in the parts catalogue for the 164 ..if only I could find them for sale...(dreaming)

eternal optimist Feb 16th, 2021 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewBrown (Post 2710335)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4b28ZScLjM

this video just shows what can be done with a B30

The B30 in this car is running a power output of 644HP and 800nm of torque (in the comments as an answer
from the owner to a question asked about the power output)

Wow. Thatís stunning. Donít like the rims much, but thatís a spectacular way of pulling the horizon closer to you.

Clan Feb 16th, 2021 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewBrown (Post 2710335)
I'm pretty sure I was not on this forum in 2013 and some people might think that's a good thing but.....(I just read it as results form a search I did on tuning the B30 engine)

I have seen other posts in other threads maybe on other forums cant remember where saying tuning the B30 is futile

they say the crank and block wont handle the power produced etc,
now I have read some dubious posts on forums in my time but that just take the
cake. the block is immensely strong as is the crank.


The standard cranks used in the cars were the same ones in the Penta motors
in Marine applications at a totally reliable 170HP
the standard 164 was between 145HP and 160HP,
depending on the year and fuel system and cam. these power figures are comparable with other 3 litre 6 cylinder motors of the era like the Ford Essex 3.0 and others, in fact the Volvo was more powerful and stronger than most of that era on par with the Mercedes Benz engines of the time, So personally I would tune the B30 because as mentioned earlier an engine swap takes away from the classic status and character of the car.

There are no stroker kits or posh cranks for the B30, as far as I can find there is some for B20 motors to get 2.5 litres and a 3.0 litre B23/B230

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4b28ZScLjM

this video just shows what can be done with a B30

The B30 in this car is running a power output of 644HP and 800nm of torque (in the comments as an answer
from the owner to a question asked about the power output)

yeah just so you read that right SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR,

easier too because its in the car already. Also there have been plenty of 164 club rally cars pushing out 200HP+ in Sweden Finland Norway etc a great sounding engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRjIHeykls

probably the best classic Volvo tuning site in the world loads of good stuff for the B30... https://www.kgtrimning.org/1.html?

just wish my 164 was manual but I do have the column shift automatic though a cool combination
but not as cool as the column shift manual M400 combination, yes it exists but not really that good for performance driving, all the parts are shown in the parts catalogue for the 164 ..if only I could find them for sale...(dreaming)

Ineed , all volvo crankshafts were forged steel up until the early 80's when the B230 was launched , The standard B30E was 175 bhp , . a full 35 bhp more than the Ford V6 ..

AndrewBrown Feb 20th, 2021 17:33

while we are on about tuning the B30 how about this

TWIN OVERHEAD CAM ALLOY HEAD B20 MOTOR!!!!!

https://www.volvotuner.ch/wordpress/...1/IMG_0005.jpg


seems to be a development of the cylinder head in a museum somewhere
still needs the cams drive worked out by the look of it


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