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-   -   1961 Volvo PV544 in Holland (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=277319)

Army Jan 7th, 2020 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by norustplease (Post 2586807)
After forty odd years in the industry, I can confirm that the only psychological association that the Uk building industry has with its building practices is that of making money by being on site for the shortest possible time!
You are right of course in your assertion about ease, you can quickly erect a bolted structure with a crane or a fork lift and true it all up afterwards. It doesn't matter if it rains or what the temperature is. If you set out to weld it you are at the mercy of the weather and without x-ray or other test methodology, you can't actually tell whether any joint made is actually robust or not. You also have to get it dead on first time, and hold it in place accurately whilst you weld. A nut and bolt is relatively foolproof in quality of joint terms and can be adjusted. Everyone knows what they are getting. Site welding is therefore in most cases taboo because of the cost and time considerations.
There are plenty of alternative building methods in use these days mostly involving factory prefabrication into units that can be quickly erected on site, however, history has shown that a lot of techniques that were going to revolutionise the building industry have proved to be a dangerous liability twenty or thirty years on. Thus the industry tends to stick with what it knows.

Time on site coupled with a dumbing down from craftsmen to workers I'm sure is an "economic" consideration. I get the feeling that companies would rather "invest" / pay for expensive machines than people. For buildings this means diesel and hydraulics together with large lumpy heavy fewer-number-of-connection designed structures.

I've got a very different set of considerations and have designed the structure to suit =>

I decided that as a one man band lifting more than 90kg isn't realistic (lifting building stuff in the real world isn't the same as pumping iron in a gym!)

I therefore need to have more thinner splindly looking elements with many many more time consuming connections. I realise there is no effing way any "professional" would do things this way, but the welding is something I can do. The weather can be a problem but the bigger problem is my health / energy levels.

My budget is also a crucial factor. I can just about afford the material costs. I did look at wooden building kits before I started but they were priced between two to three times the budget I have to spend.

Army Jan 11th, 2020 19:41

Sorry still workshop (!)
 
4 Attachment(s)
As usual as I go along I keep on having smart ideas and I change the design. Initially I was planning to have upright poles under the pitched roof apex as additional support. This would have meant I would have to move a vehicle from one side to the other via the outer doors and the outside.

Now I've decided to build a kind of compromise where I have two intrusions at either end but with the best part of five meters in between. Most vehicles on dollies will be able to be shoved at an angle from one side to another...

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1578771555

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1578771555

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1578771555

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1578771555

Note I need to dig out my longer welding leads so I don't need to raise the welder onto a little platform - and note with out sturdy G-clamps it would be even more of a health and safety nightmare...

...I must say that that grey duct tape is pretty strong stuff (!)

Army Feb 28th, 2020 11:40

Struggling with building (still)
 
1 Attachment(s)
February has not been a compliant month - too much wind and rain.

Still there is a bit of a change =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1582889887

In (actual) Volvo related news I plan to go to my first technical evening the Dutch Volvo club runs - it will be interesting to see what they have to say. For once I can get to one of the meetings on the bus!

old fart Feb 28th, 2020 12:50

Looking good, I can't see that blowing away. Good luck with the weather.

Derek UK Feb 29th, 2020 14:30

Full solar roof? Are their any government incentives in Holland?

Army Feb 29th, 2020 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by old fart (Post 2604773)
Looking good, I can't see that blowing away. Good luck with the weather.

I'm certain the structure won't blow away - problem with wind gusts above 70kph has more to do with me being a big fat sail on top of a ladder trying to weld!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek UK (Post 2605162)
Full solar roof? Are their any government incentives in Holland?

I might put on solar panels in the end but at the moment there is a really beattiful tree that will put a fair amount of shade on the roof. Once the leaves are back on the tree I'll see if there's any space on the roof that is usable for solar energy.

There are some subsidies here in Holland but I've noticed that that usually means the price is increased by the seller - effing crooks. For example I have a friend in the UK who paid his local council fifty quid to have cavity wall insulation fitted: Here I got a quote for 1800 euros. I feel I will be experimenting with my compressor and sand blasting kettle to see if I can inject my own polystyrene balls...

...the Netherlands is a nice country but it is an effing expensive country. They use the "comparative cost" trick to make you feel like you're getting a deal. The problem is the starting price for the **** option is always ridiculous.

Being foreign helps (in this case) because you know from experiences in other countries that things just don't cost that much.

Army Mar 14th, 2020 16:10

Quick spot the difference picture...
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1584202010

There's now a nice strong triangular structure in the upper third of the roof's apex. The rafters have also had some smaller box section pieces added in between to stop them from wanting to twist.

Next up - last bits of welding on the roof fitting some angle iron brackets onto which I will be able to fix the wooden part of the roof structure...


(This is taking too long - need to speed up and get done - I need to be back Volvo-ing)

Army Apr 13th, 2020 08:07

Almost got a roof
 
3 Attachment(s)
It is a bit unconventional.

I've got a wooden skeleton structure sitting in between the steel rafters. On top of this I have a sheet of OSB then another wooden skeleton structure with gaps for insulation. This gets finished off with another sheet of OSB then there's an under tile breathable membrane...

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1586761036

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1586761036

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1586761036

The OSB is only 12mm thick - so until it is fitted there's zero structural ability - it is pathetic stuff but was necessary because the flooring grade (18mm) stuff is just 6mm thicker but costs about twice as much. I got a job lot of damaged 12mm OSB for a a very low price which I felt was a bit of a gamble at the time of purchase but it has turned out that the damaged 12mm OSB is just as rubbish as the stuff they say isn't!

It might seem a bit crazy choosing 12mm OSB junk but in this design its only real purpose is to hold the insulation in place. The strength of the structure is the steel and the wooden skeleton structures that are now intertwined. The upper surface of the roof will have conventional (Dutch) ceramic roof tiles - so another structure of wooden slats and bits and bobs will be built so the tiles fit and stay on...

...all to be connected to the wooden skeleton...

Army Jun 7th, 2020 18:23

Still building...
 
7 Attachment(s)
...and not getting anything done with the Volvo.

Still there has been a bit of progress =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1591550230

I've gone for traditional Dutch style roof tiles which adds a fair amount of weight (about 3 to 4 tons) for those that were worried about this blowing away (!)

The walls as well as the roof have been insulated and the outer cladding is in position for one side.

I just need to get the other sides sorted and the floor and perhaps some glass in the windows and ... and ... and ...

Derek UK Jun 8th, 2020 12:17

That's looking great. Luckily, until the last couple of days, the weather has been fantastic and ideal for doing this sort of work. Go man, go. :regular_smile:

Army Jun 19th, 2020 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek UK (Post 2636604)
That's looking great. Luckily, until the last couple of days, the weather has been fantastic and ideal for doing this sort of work. Go man, go. :regular_smile:

...just as you mentioned the weather - guess what happened!

Army Oct 18th, 2020 10:58

Pre-winter workshop update
 
3 Attachment(s)
Things have not been going to plan. I wanted this done by April 2020

Still I'm almost ready for the winter - just need to fit my self made window frames (took too long to make) and then three of the four sides will be wind and water proof.

Front elevation =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1603014692

The big doors are a bit on the heavy side and I haven't got the insulation fitted in them yet. I need to figure out a strong hinge solution to make sure they survive that unexpected gust of wind...

...the eight windows give a fair amount of light but I will need to add in a load of LED lighting for working. Roof lights were planned but I've run out of money.

It is a bit like every episode of "Grand Designs" here with the exception of the imminent arrival of a baby (!)

Rear elevation =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1603014694

I've got an emergency exit and two church windows. Not a warm side of the building here so I haven't gone for too much glass here.

The little square covers near to the lower corners of the roof are for a ventilation system so I don't gas myself when spraying paint or welding.

The drip ledges above doors and the window sills are all folded aluminium =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1603014694

This took longer than expected...

old fart Oct 18th, 2020 12:48

Nice work. I'm not surprised it's taking longer. Maybe April 2021.

Army Oct 19th, 2020 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by old fart (Post 2674045)
Nice work. I'm not surprised it's taking longer. Maybe April 2021.

I hope it won't take that long - really want to stop paying rent for storage

Rocinante Oct 23rd, 2020 12:46

If you don't mind me asking, I assume that you planning on being able to drive cars in/out of this, but there is a step up in to it.

As you built the ground up originally, could you not have built the entrance at ground level to enable access / egress ?

simon roberts Oct 23rd, 2020 13:22

Might something to do with the sea level.....🛳⚓️⛴🚤🛥😜

Army Oct 23rd, 2020 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocinante (Post 2675356)
If you don't mind me asking, I assume that you planning on being able to drive cars in/out of this, but there is a step up in to it.

As you built the ground up originally, could you not have built the entrance at ground level to enable access / egress ?

I don't mind folks asking questions - that's why I'm posting all this stuff on a forum - all about discussion isn't it?

(Perhaps that reaction was too literal - but I think it is worth mentioning just in case)

######

Bit of a long story about the raised level I'm sorry to say (!)

Where I'm living here in the Netherlands it is on reclaimed ground (well old fen land). I'm just a bit higher than sea level but quite close to a canal and a huge waterway network where I think it is possible that despite the excellent Dutch attitude towards water managment flooding is a possibility.

My house is slightly raised (by about 50cm) too. I figured because I want to fill my new workshop with things I'd rather not get wet it was worth raising it up a bit.

Whilst some people might call this structure a garage it won't be used in the conventional "garage" way. I'm going to build an at-ground-level car port for more frequent ins and outs.

I will have at least one vehicle in the workshop at a time but any vehicle that makes it inside is unlikely to come out for several years. (Just look at the dismal Volvo progress in this thread!)

I'll be making a couple of ramps that will allow vehicles to be pushed inside. I'm conisdering one of those cheapo electric winches to help pull it up the slope (like a beached whale)...

...but already have a hand winch (that gets used for pulling out tree stumps) so might not bother...

Derek UK Oct 24th, 2020 11:35

I have a friend in Zaandam who when he had his garage built, actually more of an industrial unit, he had to have piles put in for stability and support. It was a requirement of the planning permission. That was adjacent to a canal too but I don't know if it was reclaimed land. After a few years a house developement company made him an offer he couldn't refuse so that they could add his land to theirs for a big project. He did mange to find another house that he could transfer his 4 post lift to so all was well.

Army Oct 24th, 2020 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek UK (Post 2675564)
I have a friend in Zaandam who when he had his garage built, actually more of an industrial unit, he had to have piles put in for stability and support. It was a requirement of the planning permission. That was adjacent to a canal too but I don't know if it was reclaimed land. After a few years a house developement company made him an offer he couldn't refuse so that they could add his land to theirs for a big project. He did mange to find another house that he could transfer his 4 post lift to so all was well.

I don't know that part of the Netherlands particularly well. If you look at old maps of the country that is a part that has, in modern geological tmes, always been there. I guess there it is more about sea defences rather than pumping out boggy ground.

It is now quite a pricy part of the country - but then - house prices have gone absolutely mental in the last few years. When I first moved here the housing market seemed quire sober when compared to the UK house price escalations of the time.

Apparently house prices have increased by 10% since the summer putting the national average at about 330K. I guess that hike wasn't due to the buy to let explosion that has forced up prices in recent years. At 330K I can't see anyone making more than 5% before tax on that unless the trick is to convert everything to a HMO...

...the Dutch tax authorities did admit a few years back that they can't do their work properly any more; so perhaps there's a trick I've not heard about. To be honest since I've been building this shed I've been shocked at how many people selling stuff ask if I need a receipt. It has added an irritating element of "well how much will it be with VAT applied then?" - which means I have to restart the bargaining procedure to get a good legal deal.

One of these days the Dutch tax man will wake up - I think there could be a fair amount of people in hot water - but then again there's usually a deal to be made in the world of business (much like the discrepancy between the tax paid being self employed in the UK and being on PAYE)

Rocinante Oct 27th, 2020 11:57

Jumping back significantly, I have a query about the car's bodywork. (I hadn't read your thread at the time it was posted).

I read that you had to remove mm's of filler from all over the body work, but are going for an exposed finish, showing the metal off.

Was the filler not there for a reason, ie to fill dents. Did you have to do a significant amount of repair to the bodywork to be able to do the exposed finish you wanted. It wasn't apparent from the posts that much in the way in dent repair was carried out. You documented the replacement sections for the corrosion, but I didn't see anything related to this, but may have missed it.

I haven't any experience of this sort of thing, but if the panel was damaged to the extent that it had plenty of filler on it, I would have thought it difficult to return it to a state that you would want to show off ?

Army Oct 27th, 2020 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocinante (Post 2676378)
Jumping back significantly, I have a query about the car's bodywork. (I hadn't read your thread at the time it was posted).

I read that you had to remove mm's of filler from all over the body work, but are going for an exposed finish, showing the metal off.

Was the filler not there for a reason, ie to fill dents. Did you have to do a significant amount of repair to the bodywork to be able to do the exposed finish you wanted. It wasn't apparent from the posts that much in the way in dent repair was carried out. You documented the replacement sections for the corrosion, but I didn't see anything related to this, but may have missed it.

I haven't any experience of this sort of thing, but if the panel was damaged to the extent that it had plenty of filler on it, I would have thought it difficult to return it to a state that you would want to show off ?

You are correct in saying that there was no dent removal.

I'm working on the principle that the dents are character...

....bit of a dodgy idea. I'm not sure if it will work out yet.

The cold grey metal colour is very flat. It probably needs some colour.

We'll see.

Rocinante Oct 28th, 2020 00:34

I know you've had some flak about the bare metal finish, but for what it's worth, I quite like it. I hadn't noticed obvious damage from the photographs I'd seen and that's why I assumed there was undocumented repairs carried out.

Not so sure about the "pinstripes" with the bare metal finish though, but I'm sure it'll look good whatever you decide.

Just need to get your workshop finished.

Army Oct 28th, 2020 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocinante (Post 2676610)
I know you've had some flak about the bare metal finish, but for what it's worth, I quite like it. I hadn't noticed obvious damage from the photographs I'd seen and that's why I assumed there was undocumented repairs carried out.

Not so sure about the "pinstripes" with the bare metal finish though, but I'm sure it'll look good whatever you decide.

Just need to get your workshop finished.

Thinking about it:- There was at least one dent on the car that had been filled with silly amounts of filler that was easily pushed out by hand but hardly any real hammer and dolly dent removal has been done...

...the process of removing all of that filler was a pain in the arse. It did however reveal what I felt was a really nice old car. It is in really good condition for a car that has been used and abused.

The filler was so bad bumps and the scrapes seemed really friendly and characterful. Once allof that plastic crap was removed I felt like the battle scars deserved to be shown.

It is strange but the matte clear coat feels amazing - when you touch the dents and the scrapes the car feels friendly...

...it is weird but I'm kinda in love with it (!) at the moment.

I might decide I don't like after all, however, and paint it properly like a grown up. In which case at least I've done a load of preparation...

Army Feb 11th, 2021 08:59

Massive delays
 
1 Attachment(s)
Not a great start to 2021

Since about the middle of December it has been too cold for the final but crucial finishing off jobs for the workshop. Epoxy floor paint won't dry unless it is warmer than 10 degrees - epoxy primer needs at least 5 degrees and now we're back to the "beast from the east" again!

To top the problems the Dutch government have introduced a curfew which means I probably won't have enough time to get to the place where the Volvo (and other assorted junk) is stored with out falling foul of the rules. So I'm waiting for that to pass.

There's lots of impatient waiting at the moment.

Still one can almost always count on the VKV club to send you something nice through the post at this time of year =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1613033815

Yeah OK - a letter opener - not much call for those things any more in this digital age - but still nice to have something cheerful drop in your letter box...

norustplease Feb 11th, 2021 09:14

We don't have a curfew, but the police are going around local visitor spots such as parks, seafronts, etc. asking people arriving in cars how far they have come.

If your car finish is semi matt, then you probably won't see any minor dents or ripples. It is usually the gloss coat that gives the game away with distorted reflections.

Army Feb 13th, 2021 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by norustplease (Post 2708937)
We don't have a curfew, but the police are going around local visitor spots such as parks, seafronts, etc. asking people arriving in cars how far they have come.

If your car finish is semi matt, then you probably won't see any minor dents or ripples. It is usually the gloss coat that gives the game away with distorted reflections.

Oh these dents will be visible. That's reason for doing it. Some parts look like the cracked surface of an ancient mediterranean mountain goat herder's face!

Rocinante Feb 16th, 2021 09:02

Looking forward to updates once, the weather allows.

kishor Feb 16th, 2021 18:17

Pv544
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Army (Post 2360160)
G'day Folks,

I've recently bought something by accident.

I was looking for a MK1 Transit van but somehow or other I've ended up with a "Katterug" - Katterug is what the Dutch call the PV444 / PV544 models...

...'Cos I'm English I don't quite know why they hit upon that one (!)

Anyway - this ended up being mine because I jokingly asked if it was for sale - and then jokingly said "I suppose you want 10K for it". Unfortunately the answer to the first question was "yes" - the second answer was "no" - but even worse - the number that followed was so low I felt compelled to take on yet another vehicle.

It must be a sickness.

Well anyway 'ere it is.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1516535925

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1516535925

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1516535925

On the whole it is amazingly solid despite being left out side for so long that there's moss growing on the trim.

It is road legal.

It has got some problems that even a Volvo virgin like myself can see...


Hi. If you deciding on selling it, please give me a call. Ta kassie 00447828879494

Army Aug 5th, 2021 08:19

1 Attachment(s)
Mini update

I have finally got three of my four vehicles moved to the place where I am now living. The new workshop is still in an unfinished state: The cost of building materials have gotten too expensive (people are blaming COVID - I blame greed! Sheet material used to cost me 8 euros 50 cent a sheet now they cost 22 euros 50 !)

I decided I just need to carry on with life as best I can - even though it isn't ideal the garage is now full of my automotive junk and the bare chassis / shells have now been moved...

...I'm doing my best to keep house prices affordable in my area by adding in lots of nice blue plastic =>

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1628147972

Army Aug 5th, 2021 14:54

1 Attachment(s)
Unexpected progress (!)

Managed to get the PV in the new workshop today (needed to lift it up and into the workshop becasue I still haven't built the slope I should have built <= hopeless)

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/attac...1&d=1628171349

In the next few days I hope to go over it with a fine toothed comb and look for damage and see how the clear coat on bare steel is working out.

Whilst the car wasn't left outside it was in a very damp place for two years (land lord had a brainwave and removed the roof from the building - some of the roof was replaced but then he directed rain from the gutters INSIDE the building <= total retard. There were and still are several internal waterfalls in that building - which is built on sand - which often moves when saturated - honestly I could rant all day about that effing pillock)

Nixiebunny Apr 13th, 2022 16:04

I realize this is three years late, but there is a way to make an old adjustable reamer found on ebay work for this job. Buy an extension pilot. The American reamer 23/32 to 25/32 is size E or 5M. The extension pilot is sold by McMaster-Carr as part 3004A17. It's USD50 in 2022.


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