What happened to OEM?

[ltec]

Originally Posted by ShakTak

A Volvo car is excellent quality because it's built with all the same genuine quality parts.

Take that same car and build it with aftermarket, oem or pattern parts and it's not even close to the same vehicle.

Genuine Volvo parts only for me.

The sachs shocks kev is talking about is the exact same shock. Putting it in a volvo box in no way makes it a better part, what are you gassing about.

[ltec]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

And where did I mention shocks? (I didn't...)

Rant away, I can't be bothered to entertain you, another good thread ruined....

Kev mentioned sachs shocks are just the same part and you replied to him with usual spin nonsense.
Another crap thread saved from the snobs.

[GMcL]

OEM vs quality manufactured parts is a tricky one.

No one bats an eyelid if someone swaps from Continental tyres as supplied from the factory vs Michelin, Goodyear or any other decent brand of tyre. Wanli, GoodLife or any other budget brand on the other hand, they are approved and get an E mark, whether you want them or not is another matter and they have a different life span accordingly. They meet a minimum standard otherwise they could not be sold.

A manufacturer specs a part to optimise manufacturing and life expectancy for a region or possibly global. It's possible a local parts manufacturer can produce something better which is specific for the local environment.
If you want your car to perform like the manufacturer intended then you buy from the manufacturer approved retail outlet. Other quality parts are available as are budget parts, see my tyres example above.
Then you have those who look to charge premium prices for less than premium quality and stick OEM in the description. As long as you go in with your eyes wide open then it is,as it always has been, buyer beware.

I prefer Goodyear tyres on my Volvo to what Volvo determined were the best, Continental. I find Continental too brittle, the ride very hard and the wear unacceptable. Michelin all the way on my Ford, won't consider anything else.

This idea that a manufacturer knows best and is beyond question, hmmm EGR and VEA anyone ?

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by GMcL

OEM vs quality manufactured parts is a tricky one.

No one bats an eyelid if someone swaps from Continental tyres as supplied from the factory vs Michelin, Goodyear or any other decent brand of tyre. Wanli, GoodLife or any other budget brand on the other hand, they are approved and get an E mark, whether you want them or not is another matter and they have a different life span accordingly. They meet a minimum standard otherwise they could not be sold.

A manufacturer specs a part to optimise manufacturing and life expectancy for a region or possibly global. It's possible a local parts manufacturer can produce something better which is specific for the local environment.
If you want your car to perform like the manufacturer intended then you buy from the manufacturer approved retail outlet. Other quality parts are available as are budget parts, see my tyres example above.
Then you have those who look to charge premium prices for less than premium quality and stick OEM in the description. As long as you go in with your eyes wide open then it is,as it always has been, buyer beware.

I prefer Goodyear tyres on my Volvo to what Volvo determined were the best, Continental. I find Continental too brittle, the ride very hard and the wear unacceptable. Michelin all the way on my Ford, won't consider anything else.

This idea that a manufacturer knows best and is beyond question, hmmm EGR and VEA anyone ?

I think the tyre example is the right theme but only works to a point - tyres are unique in that they are generic to all cars and the variation is use - i.e. a tyre of size 235 60 18 fits and XC90, and probably over a hundred other cars. From the factory, Volvo fit Continental, and Pirelli, probably others. But when you buy tyres, you might but winter tyres, off road tyres, summer tyres... etc. In in each category, you could pay more than twice as much for the best quality. What is certain is the lower 50% of the options will not perform anything like as well as the top items.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by ltec

Forget about the genuine volvo snobs on here that have no experience of fitting good quality after market parts. For example when you buy your skf wheel bearing or whatever it may be for half the price of the main stealer you can be assured skf is putting the quality into it and won't let you down.

I've thought about this and to be honest - your right. It is a form of snobbery.

I actually almost get off on the imperiousness I feel driving my XC90 knowing that the genuine Volvo ball joints I fitted that cost £70 each will last at least 6 times as long as the £30 Delphi crap I took off that were dangerously worn after 18k miles. I beam from ear to ear knowing the genuine Volvo spring top seats I fitted that cost £60 each will last 6 times as long as then Febi crap I threw in the bin that failed after 20k miles. And I'm ecstatic as I reflect on the genuine Volvo wishbone bushes I fitted that cost £70 a side that will last at least twice as long as the FAI wishbones that cost less for a whole, assembled unit.

I'm going to order some genuine engine mounts now.... I can hardly wait.

[canis]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

I've thought about this and to be honest - your right. It is a form of snobbery.

I have the opposite feeling. When I overhauled the V40's petrol engine the price for a tube of the liquid gasket sealant for the rocker cover, from volvo it was really expensive. And you needed to buy a special roller to apply it with.

I bought some cheap stuff for £3.75. It was red. I smeared it with my fingers. And it worked a treat. I was nervous at first, expecting failure, especially as it took us around France the following week.

Oh, and the timing belt was long overdue. So I bought another, but it was the wrong one supplied. So I chose the nicer of the two between mine and the donor car, and it snapped straight away during test-crank with the injectors unplugged. Fortunately I caught it before any valve collisions occured (secret tip - leave the plastic covers off!), so with no other options I put the old one back on. The answer is yes, you can use a timing belt about 60,000 miles overdue - if you're brave enough. It was a nervous french trip, but gotta love those genuine volvo parts.

When the beloved V40 of which I fondly recollect so often was broken into, all the locks were broken. The door handles. Various bits of window trim. And the rear quarter screen was smashed. They'd stolen the radio, but that didn't even work anyway. I reckon this would've cost easily hundreds of pounds to fix in the usual "quote me a river" method at a local garage. So I bought a donor car for £140. By the time I'd disposed of it, I'd actually made profit. Quote-me-negative - now that's my kinda price!

So you see, there are alternatives to just buying volvo parts brand new, if you're even rich enough to afford them. The snobbery works in both directions. And why do I do it? Because the feeling you get in a decrepit old T4 with ladders tied to the roof outperforming kids in their hot hatchbacks on the M60 is worth all the effort.

And at the end of the day, if El Cheapo brakes are good enough for the ABS, that's as good as they need to be. Anything extra is wasted. It's your tyres that do the stopping.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by canis

And at the end of the day, if El Cheapo brakes are good enough for the ABS, that's as good as they need to be. Anything extra is wasted. It's your tyres that do the stopping.

But that's not the case... it's tyres and brakes that do the stopping, the limitation is always the weakest part.

And the idea that if cheap brakes are good enough to lock the wheels (which is what I assume you mean) anything above that is wasted is also not the case, in so many ways.

Bought an XC60 once, 4 years old, full history, brakes were 90% worn all round, agreed a discount but the seller then replaced the brakes with Apec discs and pads. They were auwful, yes the car would stop and yes it would pass an MOT but they felt very "on/off" and faded easily when pressing on. I spent £500 putting genuine Volvo discs and pads on and it transformed the car, much less pedal effort, much more progressive and with good feel, much less fade. Made it feel like a new car again, and it was safer as I could very accurately slow the car at junctions to a stop without having to vary the brake pressure.

Also the traction control/ABS system relies on not only being able to release the brakes on each individual wheel but also to be able to apply them to control the car in a skid and to prevent a car from "cross axleing" in the absence of a limited slip diff. Hence on even FWD models the effectiveness of this system being able to brake with only light pressure and progressively brake is directly proportionate to the ability of the traction control system to work, and get you moving in slipper conditions, and stop you ending up on the roof in a ditch.

Saying if brakes are good enough for ABS and anything extra is wasted is like saying if cheap beer is good enough to get you drunk anything extra is wasted... it's the taste that counts.

[ltec]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

I think the tyre example is the right theme but only works to a point - tyres are unique in that they are generic to all cars and the variation is use - i.e. a tyre of size 235 60 18 fits and XC90, and probably over a hundred other cars. From the factory, Volvo fit Continental, and Pirelli, probably others. But when you buy tyres, you might but winter tyres, off road tyres, summer tyres... etc. In in each category, you could pay more than twice as much for the best quality. What is certain is the lower 50% of the options will not perform anything like as well as the top items.

No that's not what he's saying. Just because volvo fit a certain brand tyre does not mean that's the best tyre. You can buy better or equivalent tyres of the same type tyre for less money.

[ltec]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

I've thought about this and to be honest - your right. It is a form of snobbery.

I actually almost get off on the imperiousness I feel driving my XC90 knowing that the genuine Volvo ball joints I fitted that cost £70 each will last at least 6 times as long as the £30 Delphi crap I took off that were dangerously worn after 18k miles. I beam from ear to ear knowing the genuine Volvo spring top seats I fitted that cost £60 each will last 6 times as long as then Febi crap I threw in the bin that failed after 20k miles. And I'm ecstatic as I reflect on the genuine Volvo wishbone bushes I fitted that cost £70 a side that will last at least twice as long as the FAI wishbones that cost less for a whole, assembled unit.

I'm going to order some genuine engine mounts now.... I can hardly wait.

You just can't help yourself. If you think that's quality aftermarket parts then it shows how little you actually know about aftermarket.
But that's not the argument. You are fitting the exact same part but paying more through volvo to satisfy your snobbery crave as in fitting sachs shocks but only in a volvo box.
It also fills me full of joy to fit sachs aftermarket shocks knowing I have saved money and haven't overpayed for the exact same part that the snobs are paying for in a volvo box. It also fills me full of joy to fit a skf bearing at half the price of a volvo one.
It's actually a bit sad that you believe volvos choice of tyre is best, Volvos brand of oil is best, volvos brand of filter is best. A mahle filter is every bit as good as Mann if not better. I was fit to buy mahle filters 3 times cheaper than volvo wanted.

[canis]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

they felt very "on/off" and faded easily when pressing on...I could very accurately slow the car at junctions to a stop without having to vary the brake pressure.

I wasn't attacking you, merely expressing an alternative perspective. But honestly, these advantages you describe I am not lacking. And the disadvantages you're describing, I'm not experiencing. I get no judder, no jarring, no jolts, no squeals, no snatching. I suppose if I was really pressed, perhaps fade might be increased but I have no data on this. And I don't drive to those extremes. You talk of gentle controlled braking - well that is exactly my driving style. Only I do it at a fraction of the price, and that makes me feel gooooood

But I do get it. "Reassuringly expensive" is a real phenomenon. You carry on.