2.4D (2005 on) Diesel Particulate Filter issues

[Elscint]

I have recently trawled through the numerous threads in this Forum re DPF's and would like to add a few comments and ask a few more questions!!! So please bear with me while I waffle on with a little intro. Fifteen months ago, when I retired I bought myself a 2006 V70 D5, 163bhp Geartronic (2.4D to some?), engine code D5244T5 with 120,000 miles on the clock, full Volvo service history and
used mainly to pull a caravan. Having now done 10,000 miles in what I believe to be one of the best cars I have ever owned I am a little mystified by the numerous complaints re Volvo DPF's and the so called "regeneration" process. Why? Because for the last ten years I have owned three Euro 4 diesels all fitted with DPF's, covered a combined 160,000 miles and NOT ONCE have I detected a regeneration process, but more importantly was NEVER informed by VW or BMW ( the two cars I owned before the Volvo) that I may have to drive, once a month on the motorway at an illegal speed and at more that 2000rpm for at least 20 minutes as some forum members have suggested. What absolute and utter
b*****ks. I know DPF equipped cars are not suited to short journeys and many drivers have experienced problems ( and not just Volvo Forum members) but has anyone with a recent purchase/ in warranty car taken it back to the manufacturer when the DPF failed and said " this car is not fit for purpose" or has been told by the service manager " forgot to tell you sir but once a month you must thrash the you know what out of your Pride and Joy and belt up the M6 for thirty minutes at 100 mph" which equates to 3000rpm in my V70? Yesterday I hooked up my Vida/DiCe and checked my DPF at idle, soot was 19gms and pressure was 5hPa. I suspect a regeneration will occur sometime this month but I will not detect it!!! FWIW I do all my own servicing, car just sailed through its MOT and does a true 49mpg at a steady 70 on the motorway and I do a one hour run once every two weeks but at no more than 60mph as I rarely uses motorways these days. Please discuss, am I lucky or what? Should I be giving it a thrash, I rarely see more than 2000rpm on the rev counter!!

John

[5cilinder]

It has been regenerating , if you want to notice it , buy a cheap elm 237 bluetooth obd adapter and install torque on an android phone
Monitor the throttle and egr valve, you will see the EGR valve close and the throttle almost close (also rail and turbo pressure will drop) when regenerating

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by Elscint

I have recently trawled through the numerous threads in this Forum re DPF's and would like to add a few comments and ask a few more questions!!! So please bear with me while I waffle on with a little intro. Fifteen months ago, when I retired I bought myself a 2006 V70 D5, 163bhp Geartronic (2.4D to some?), engine code D5244T5 with 120,000 miles on the clock, full Volvo service history and
used mainly to pull a caravan. Having now done 10,000 miles in what I believe to be one of the best cars I have ever owned I am a little mystified by the numerous complaints re Volvo DPF's and the so called "regeneration" process. Why? Because for the last ten years I have owned three Euro 4 diesels all fitted with DPF's, covered a combined 160,000 miles and NOT ONCE have I detected a regeneration process, but more importantly was NEVER informed by VW or BMW ( the two cars I owned before the Volvo) that I may have to drive, once a month on the motorway at an illegal speed and at more that 2000rpm for at least 20 minutes as some forum members have suggested. What absolute and utter
b*****ks. I know DPF equipped cars are not suited to short journeys and many drivers have experienced problems ( and not just Volvo Forum members) but has anyone with a recent purchase/ in warranty car taken it back to the manufacturer when the DPF failed and said " this car is not fit for purpose" or has been told by the service manager " forgot to tell you sir but once a month you must thrash the you know what out of your Pride and Joy and belt up the M6 for thirty minutes at 100 mph" which equates to 3000rpm in my V70? Yesterday I hooked up my Vida/DiCe and checked my DPF at idle, soot was 19gms and pressure was 5hPa. I suspect a regeneration will occur sometime this month but I will not detect it!!! FWIW I do all my own servicing, car just sailed through its MOT and does a true 49mpg at a steady 70 on the motorway and I do a one hour run once every two weeks but at no more than 60mph as I rarely uses motorways these days. Please discuss, am I lucky or what? Should I be giving it a thrash, I rarely see more than 2000rpm on the rev counter!!

John

Hi John, I have owned a 2006 S60 D5 185 manual since 2010 and covered about 70k in that time.

My findings have been an absolute mirror image of yours and my fuel consumption ( contrary to what some say about the Euro4 engine ) has also been brilliant.

I have never once gone for a drive or indeed driven in a specific manner to initiate/complete a regen and I have never been aware of it happening.

In the past I have changed my car ( never new ) every couple of years mainly through boredom but cannot bring myself to part with this S60 as it is such a good car . It is also a bloody quick car for a diesel and pulls my caravan easily as well.

[skyship007]

DPF failure is not covered by most extended warranties and trying to reject a car because it needs replacing is near impossible.
How long one lasts before Zinc ash blocks it up enough to require replacement does not depend just on total mileage, it depends much more on the number of stop-starts and oil consumption.

A lot of owners seem to have trouble around the 100K plus mile mark and although there is not much that can be done about what a car is used for, or even driver style (Try to avoid sudden accelerations taking you out of lean burn mode), there are a few service tricks that do help keep the oil consumption low AND the injectors gum free.

Firstly it helps if the engine was run in correctly (Avoid idle time, sustained high WOT and change the oil as per the instructions), but in many cases there is not much that can be done about that matter.

Gum forms in the injectors just after shut down IF you use cheap supermarket fuel AND don't use either a top quality in-tank fuel additive, OR Liqui Moly Diesel Purge when the fuel filter is replaced. The more short trips, the worse the issue. Bad injection spray patterns cause 2 issues for a DPF, firstly they result in more Regens because of the extra Carbon deposits, BUT secondly they cause increased upper cylinder wear (Rings and valve guide oil seals) that will increase the very critical oil consumption.

Which oil to use is a complex issue, as DPF approved oils lack Zinc based anti wear additives and cause higher than normal main block wear rates. For sure I would not used an HDEO truck oil and would stick to a major brand full synthetic of the correct viscosity group (Probably 0w30 in winter and 5w40 in summer if you change twice a year, or 0w40 if not).

Using an expensive oil additive like Ceratec is worth doing once a block has fully run in (100K km plus). Ceratec contains both traditional Moly (Mo) anti wear friction modifyer AND a hexagonal form of Boron Nitride. It's approved for DPF diesels and was designed to reduce the oil consumption. The BN in Ceratec does last 50K km, BUT not if you change the oil, so it does need to be used every OCI, although half a 300ml can is enough.

If you are burning oil, try using a real good cleaner oil that is not based on black crud (Crude oil), as German standard (Not Castrol Edge or Mobil M1) full synthetics or GTL (Gas to liquids) based engine oils (Shell Ultra) are natural solvents that will keep the oil scraper rings clean in particular. Then try half a can of a major brand stop leak to swell up the valve guide oil seals.

Finally, some mental case thinks that a 20 or even 30K km oil change interval for a DPF diesel (The non Eloys ones always contaminate the oil with diesel fuel during a Regen) makes sense. Only an oil Lab like Blackstone can tell you when the oil needs changing for minimum wear, but the rule is, "If in doubt, get it out", cos even a good motorway session will not burn off the BIO fraction (Too high a flash point). If the used oil contains more than 2% it's not good news, if it has more than 5% (You might start to smell it on a hot dip stick), it's real bad in engine wear terms (Too thin AND it interferes with the oils anti wear additives).
It's the oil quality that's important and if you do dump it early (Say 5K miles), don't change the oil filter, as dirty filters are far more efficient than new ones. The max OFI is fine unless you are cleaning up a sludge monster.

[Horton]

We had an interesting issue with an 06 XC70... It was very high miles at 180k but had been regularly serviced by a Volvo specialist in Bristol. When it came in, it's was very cheap and I decided to give it to Missus as a short term runabout until her new car arrived.. It was very noisy on the top end, so I ripped out the rockers/lifters and fitted a new set. All good, nice and quiet and running lovely. Anyway, she used it, and all was fine for a couple of weeks, then the DPF blocked and it went into limp mode. We changed the oil as it looked a bit thin and then did a regen... All was fine again for a week or so and then the oil light came on... Low oil level? Topped up, test drove all fine for a few weeks. Anyway, her new car arrives so I promptly took it back, gave it a full service and sold it on to a good customer who wanted a dog car.... All is fine and dandy until he phones me to say it's suddenly very slow and there's a light on. Investigation reveals the DPF is blocked, so we replaced it and the car was once again running lovely... I noticed it always felt like it was slightly (and I mean VeRY slightly) holding back and holding onto gears (auto) but when the new DPF was fitted it felt like this had gone and drove really nicely! Didn't hear anything more until about 2 months later and the same issue had appeared, blocked DPF and low oil level. Investigation revealed after hours of checking that one of the DPF feed pipes was blocked... Cleaned out, changed oil and regen... Fine again, customer takes it way and it's all fine UNTIL six weeks later and the phone call comes that it's suddenly stopped and there's a massive oil leak.....
Cutting a long story short, a con rod had shot out the side of the case and the engine was foobar..

Now, we think the engine had an issue with piston rings, and it was burning oil. Low ash oil doesn't really smoke when it's just relatively minimal burn, but it really didn't smoke at all.... Anyone had a similar experience?


Anyway, we sorted out another car for my chap, and fitted a low mileage 2010 XC90 engine and it's lovely now

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Elscint

I have recently trawled through the numerous threads in this Forum re DPF's and would like to add a few comments and ask a few more questions!!! So please bear with me while I waffle on with a little intro. Fifteen months ago, when I retired I bought myself a 2006 V70 D5, 163bhp Geartronic (2.4D to some?), engine code D5244T5 with 120,000 miles on the clock, full Volvo service history and
used mainly to pull a caravan. Having now done 10,000 miles in what I believe to be one of the best cars I have ever owned I am a little mystified by the numerous complaints re Volvo DPF's and the so called "regeneration" process. Why? Because for the last ten years I have owned three Euro 4 diesels all fitted with DPF's, covered a combined 160,000 miles and NOT ONCE have I detected a regeneration process, but more importantly was NEVER informed by VW or BMW ( the two cars I owned before the Volvo) that I may have to drive, once a month on the motorway at an illegal speed and at more that 2000rpm for at least 20 minutes as some forum members have suggested. What absolute and utter
b*****ks. I know DPF equipped cars are not suited to short journeys and many drivers have experienced problems ( and not just Volvo Forum members) but has anyone with a recent purchase/ in warranty car taken it back to the manufacturer when the DPF failed and said " this car is not fit for purpose" or has been told by the service manager " forgot to tell you sir but once a month you must thrash the you know what out of your Pride and Joy and belt up the M6 for thirty minutes at 100 mph" which equates to 3000rpm in my V70? Yesterday I hooked up my Vida/DiCe and checked my DPF at idle, soot was 19gms and pressure was 5hPa. I suspect a regeneration will occur sometime this month but I will not detect it!!! FWIW I do all my own servicing, car just sailed through its MOT and does a true 49mpg at a steady 70 on the motorway and I do a one hour run once every two weeks but at no more than 60mph as I rarely uses motorways these days. Please discuss, am I lucky or what? Should I be giving it a thrash, I rarely see more than 2000rpm on the rev counter!!

John

You don't have to do anything, the regeneration takes care of itself even when cruising at 50 mph .
You don't have a problem, just drive it !

[Horton]

Originally Posted by Clan

You don't have to do anything, the regeneration takes care of itself even when cruising at 50 mph .
You don't have a problem, just drive it !

If only..... Fine up to 150k, but not afterwards...

[GrahamBrown1]

Originally Posted by Horton

We had an interesting issue with an 06 XC70... It was very high miles at 180k but had been regularly serviced by a Volvo specialist in Bristol. When it came in, it's was very cheap and I decided to give it to Missus as a short term runabout until her new car arrived.. It was very noisy on the top end, so I ripped out the rockers/lifters and fitted a new set. All good, nice and quiet and running lovely. Anyway, she used it, and all was fine for a couple of weeks, then the DPF blocked and it went into limp mode. We changed the oil as it looked a bit thin and then did a regen... All was fine again for a week or so and then the oil light came on... Low oil level? Topped up, test drove all fine for a few weeks. Anyway, her new car arrives so I promptly took it back, gave it a full service and sold it on to a good customer who wanted a dog car.... All is fine and dandy until he phones me to say it's suddenly very slow and there's a light on. Investigation reveals the DPF is blocked, so we replaced it and the car was once again running lovely... I noticed it always felt like it was slightly (and I mean VeRY slightly) holding back and holding onto gears (auto) but when the new DPF was fitted it felt like this had gone and drove really nicely! Didn't hear anything more until about 2 months later and the same issue had appeared, blocked DPF and low oil level. Investigation revealed after hours of checking that one of the DPF feed pipes was blocked... Cleaned out, changed oil and regen... Fine again, customer takes it way and it's all fine UNTIL six weeks later and the phone call comes that it's suddenly stopped and there's a massive oil leak.....
Cutting a long story short, a con rod had shot out the side of the case and the engine was foobar..

Now, we think the engine had an issue with piston rings, and it was burning oil. Low ash oil doesn't really smoke when it's just relatively minimal burn, but it really didn't smoke at all.... Anyone had a similar experience?


Anyway, we sorted out another car for my chap, and fitted a low mileage 2010 XC90 engine and it's lovely now

My s60 euro 4 with 143,000 has been burning oil for a while now, i use the castrol 0w30 and with full Volvo history before my ownership it's the only oil it's ever had. The engine is nice and quite on tick over but the burning oil is a slight mystery. I have had no dpf problems because the car does motorway miles but I do have to keep topping it up every week. I change the oil every 10,000 and in that time I could go through 2 maybe even 3 litres topping up before the next Change. At the moment I'm living with it buts its in the back of my mind. Mine also doesn't smoke not even when giving it some throttle.

[skyship007]

Graham:
My s60 euro 4 with 143,000 has been burning oil for a while now, i use the castrol 0w30 and with full Volvo history before my ownership it's the only oil it's ever had. The engine is nice and quite on tick over but the burning oil is a slight mystery. I have had no dpf problems because the car does motorway miles but I do have to keep topping it up every week. I change the oil every 10,000 and in that time I could go through 2 maybe even 3 litres topping up before the next Change. At the moment I'm living with it buts its in the back of my mind. Mine also doesn't smoke not even when giving it some throttle.
__________________

I would move up one grade to an 0w40 and then try half a can of Liqui Moly Motor Oil Saver (It's a stop leak).
Castrol Edge 0w30 is nearly into the 40 range when hot, so if you change to using another major brand, use their 0w40.

10K miles of motorway use is probably OK for an OCI, BUT if you are burning oil it might be worth making sure the crank case is venting correctly with a simple balloon test. It's unlikely but still worth checking.

One of the reasons DPF diesels sometimes burn oil is fuel contamination thinning the oil, so using a higher grade can help the loss rate past the valve guide oil seals.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by skyship007

My s60 euro 4 with 143,000 has been burning oil for a while now, i use the castrol 0w30 and with full Volvo history before my ownership it's the only oil it's ever had. The engine is nice and quite on tick over but the burning oil is a slight mystery. I have had no dpf problems because the car does motorway miles but I do have to keep topping it up every week. I change the oil every 10,000 and in that time I could go through 2 maybe even 3 litres topping up before the next Change. At the moment I'm living with it buts its in the back of my mind. Mine also doesn't smoke not even when giving it some throttle.
__________________

I would move up one grade to an 0w40 and then try half a can of Liqui Moly Motor Oil Saver (It's a stop leak).
Castrol Edge 0w30 is nearly into the 40 range when hot, so if you change to Shell Ultra or an LM Synthoil, use their 0w40 as both companies make a DPF compatible oil in that range.

10K miles of motorway use is probably OK, BUT if you are burning oil it might be worth making sure the crank case is venting correctly with a simple balloon test. It's unlikely but still worth checking.

volvo specificly say do not use 0w/40 oil on their oil chart ... it must be to keep the engine within their emission specifications .