Unleaded fuel spec' change. UK

[Mick787]

For those members who's cars use unleaded fuel, this may be something to be aware of. Especially those who own older models. I heard about this just the other day. Recall the fun and games when they stopped 4 star!

Hope the link works.

https://www.rugbyadvertiser.co.uk/li...change-3104048

[GaryP]

The article links to a PDF. Read the PDF and it says everything Volvo made after '76 except the 1.8 GDI engines from the mid '90s will work just fine with E10.

[Deck1ng]

Originally Posted by GaryP

The article links to a PDF. Read the PDF and it says everything Volvo made after '76 except the 1.8 GDI engines from the mid '90s will work just fine with E10.

But only on model s/V40

[Laird Scooby]

In many countries, E5/E10 fuel has been around for decades. Many of those countries produced/still produce cars so check to see when they first ued E5/E10 fuels and if you own a car made by that country after that time you should be ok unless someone has changed the fuel lines in that time.

Also anything exported to the USA where they've had it since the early 70s will run happily enough on fuels with ethanol.

However, it has a higher water content and can cause excess condensation in the tank - this will show as rough running after being sat for a while (in traffic for example) and/or poor cold starting accompanied by rough running for a while.
Add methanol (methylated spirits) in a ratio of 1:10 (1L of meths to 10 of petrol) will remove the condensation - easiest way is wait until the tank contents are down to ~1/4 tank then add 2L of meths, Toolstation sell it for about a tenner for 2L (cheapest place to get it i've found), then drive it normally. Only add more petrol when you're close to running out (1/4 tank is NOT close to running out! ) so as to not "dilute" the meths.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

...Add methanol (methylated spirits) in a ratio of 1:10 (1L of meths to 10 of petrol) will remove the condensation - easiest way is wait until the tank contents are down to ~1/4 tank then add 2L of meths, Toolstation sell it for about a tenner for 2L (cheapest place to get it i've found), then drive it normally. Only add more petrol when you're close to running out (1/4 tank is NOT close to running out! ) so as to not "dilute" the meths.

Do you have a link to a credible source for this 'advice'?

In particular I'd point out that while methylated spirits does contain methanol the percentage can be quite low and the major proportion is actually ethanol...so you'd likely be making the potential problem much worse!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Zebster

Do you have a link to a credible source for this 'advice'?

In particular I'd point out that while methylated spirits does contain methanol the percentage can be quite low and the major proportion is actually ethanol...so you'd likely be making the potential problem much worse!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

It's a long time since i did my Chemistry "O" level but it's something i learned back then.

"Miscible in water and hydrocarbon solvents"

......from :

http://www.customchem.com.au/wp-cont...Info-Sheet.pdf

Miscable is a difficult word to explain, basically it forms an emulsion with the condensation in the tank and because the meths will burn, allows the water to "burn" off during normal combustion - this is a simplified explanation but the tip was given to me 30+ years ago by someone who got the tip from someone else 30+ years before that. It's been used over many decades successfully and i've used it myself many times successfully.
I've also recommended it many times on her and other car fora as a "first step" to removing condensation in petrol tanks all with positive results.

It won't exacerbate the problem as you suggest as the ethanol in the fuel has already given up its water content as condensation, not to mention the moisture from the atmosphere in the tank, none of which are now mixed with the petrol but sit underneath it when settled.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

It's a long time since i did my Chemistry "O" level but it's something i learned back then.

"Miscible in water and hydrocarbon solvents"

......from :

http://www.customchem.com.au/wp-cont...Info-Sheet.pdf

Miscable is a difficult word to explain, basically it forms an emulsion with the condensation in the tank and because the meths will burn, allows the water to "burn" off during normal combustion - this is a simplified explanation but the tip was given to me 30+ years ago by someone who got the tip from someone else 30+ years before that. It's been used over many decades successfully and i've used it myself many times successfully.
I've also recommended it many times on her and other car fora as a "first step" to removing condensation in petrol tanks all with positive results.

It won't exacerbate the problem as you suggest as the ethanol in the fuel has already given up its water content as condensation, not to mention the moisture from the atmosphere in the tank, none of which are now mixed with the petrol but sit underneath it when settled.

The link you've provided as 'evidence' in no way backs up your claim that adding methylated spirits to E10 petrol can offset the problem of condensation. But it does clearly state that the product 'contains: ethanol > 95%', thereby proving my point that there is very little methanol in methylated spirits... you are actually suggesting adding ethanol to fix the problem of ethanol being added to petrol!!!

You don't need to explain basic scientific terms such as 'miscible' to me. I have a science degree.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Zebster

You don't need to explain basic scientific terms such as 'miscible' to me. I have a science degree.

Then why ask? I know it works, i've proved it too many times.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Then why ask? I know it works, i've proved it too many times.

You made the unsubstantiated claim that adding methanol would cure the potential problem of water retention when using E10... In my opinion that would be a daft thing to try without some sort of credible and verifiable source information. Even worse you also gave misleading advice about methylated spirits being a form of methanol, when it's actually mostly ethanol.

You obviously do want to be helpful, but you have history for making wild and obviously incorrect cIaims... for example I recall a recent statement you made claiming that the use of premium fuel increased your MPG by 50%, which I challenged and you repeated.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Zebster

You made the unsubstantiated claim that adding methanol would cure the potential problem of water retention when using E10... In my opinion that would be a daft thing to try without some sort of credible and verifiable source information. Even worse you also gave misleading advice about methylated spirits being a form of methanol, when it's actually mostly ethanol.

You obviously do want to be helpful, but you have history for making wild and obviously incorrect cIaims... for example I recall a recent statement you made claiming that the use of premium fuel increased your MPG by 50%, which I challenged and you repeated.

I didn't mention water retention, i said condensation which comes largely from the moist air in the tank but also as the water content of the petrol separates.

Using meths to cure it has worked countless times over the years not only for me but for people i've recommended it to.

As for suggesting i made a wild claim, i don't have limitless funds like some to just throw petrol in the tank willy-nilly and soon notice if the economy is suffering.

It was NOT an incorrect claim, my 760 was down to 14mpg for no other reason than Sainsburys had changed their supplier from BP to someone else, Esso i believe but i have yet to confirm that other than by circumstantial evidence that Nectar points are now given away with Esso fuel and no longer (after ~30+ years) with BP.

The reason i repeated it is because it was correct. Coming from an engineering background i am used to verifying things to prove it isn't a fluke and i have had consistent results using BP Ultimate and on occasion when i've deliberately (or sometimes been unable to get BP) switched to a different brand, even of the alleged same octane rating, noticed a big difference in fuel economy.

In fact i documented this all in a series of emails to a friend, whether they are still available to me or have dropped off the bottom of my storage bin for emails is another matter.

Please ensure you know the facts i have available to me before challenging me on those facts. If you can't you're simply throwing allegations for no other reason than you appear to like doing. If you can genuinely challenge the facts i have available, i'm more than happy to discuss that with you but when you don't have access to my mileage, fuel receipts, bank accounts etc you have no information to even think of saying i'm wrong.

After all, who would i be cheating ultimately if what i said was wrong? ME! I can't afford to do that and wouldn't even if i could.

I'm not in the habit of cheating anyone, least of all myself so if you don't believe what i say, that's fine but keep it to yourself unless you have very solid grounds to challenge me. Thank you.