Any ideas?

sye73 · Jun 26th, 2013, 12:53

Hi
Hope that someone can help - I have a '96 855r that seems to have developed a loud 'groaning' noise. I am sure it's coming from the near-side-rear of the car and only happens under braking/turning left. The car was serviced about 2 months ago and all the brakes were looked at ( adjusted, cleaned and replaced where necessary ) so I'm pretty confident it's nothing to do with the braking system. Would I be right in saying that really only leaves wheel bearings to consider ? If so, does anyone know whether they should be replaced as a pair, and also any ideas how long the job should take a garage to complete ?
Many thanks

capt jack · Jun 26th, 2013, 15:04

No, wheel bearings don't need to be replaced in pairs, but that doesn't sound like typical wheel bearing noise.

It does sound as though it's more to do with the brakes.

It's not really right to assume that because they were looked at 2 months ago they'll be OK now.

Unless you feel comfortable in having a look yourself I'd suggest going back to whoever serviced the car as the first point of call.

Cheers

Jack

sye73 · Jun 26th, 2013, 19:59

Thank you for the reply
Certainly, the noise only occurs when using the brakes so agree with what you're saying. What I also should've made clear to start with was that the sound was there prior to the service ; it was because I wasn't able to demonstrate it to the mechanic beforehand (as is the nature of something intermittent ) that he said ' .. all we can do is take a look at the rear brakes and see if anything is amiss'. I watched what was done and the condition of pads etc and all looked fine. Handbrake shoes were also checked and adjusted.
I would be reasonably happy to take a look as I don't have a job currently and any way of saving some money would be welcome ; however, I'm only 'ok' with a set of spanners and also have no reason to believe I will find something the garage didn't.
If I could bring the noise on, it would make things easier !

cookie · Jun 26th, 2013, 23:13

has car been lowered, have you had a good check of anywhere where wheel may be rubbing (like on inner arch liner where it meets wing)

also were pins replaced on rear brakes, as they are usually as rusty as hell, and can make pads sieze

sye73 · Jun 27th, 2013, 00:04

The car is lowered, although its been running the same set up for many years without any issue. Additionally, it's not a tyre/arch/liner type noise .. thought earier infact it sounded more like a trumpet! The caliper pins are an interesting suggestion, although calipers were replaced all round about 18 months ago. Pads themselves are about 10 months/8k miles old

capt jack · Jun 27th, 2013, 09:25

When you say that they handbrake was checked and adjusted, how was this done?

Ideally, the rear disc-drums should be removed, and the handbrake components all cleaned and copper-greased appropriately before being put back, and then adjusted. In fact, for what they cost, you might as well have new shoes fitted at the same time. The adjustment MUST be done via the adjusters on each wheel and NOT on the linkage under the centre console.

Unfortunately adjusting the handbrake properly is a lot more difficult than simply tightening up the linkage inside the car, and so it can be tempting to take the easy option.

One of the few weaknesses of the 850/x70 cars is the fact that the handbrake shoes can de-laminate and cause problems. I can't of course say for sure that this has happened in this instance, but it'd be worth a careful check.

The other place to look for clues is the tyres.

If your handiness with the spanners extends even only as far as wheel-changing then you'll be OK with this. Jack the car up and make sure that it's safely chocked and supported. Remove the rear nearside wheel and inspect the tyre very closely. The tread should be evenly worn across and around the tyre. Evidence of uneven tread wear could suggest that suspension components are worn or out of true.

Whilst that side of the car is up in the air, and the wheel off, have a good look around to see if you can spot where anything might be rubbing - the exhaust perhaps, or as has been suggested, the tyre against the inner wheel arch.

Lastly, just check and make sure that the rear exhaust hanger is intact. Grab hold of the exhaust tail pipe and give it a waggle. Movement should be all but non-existent. If the tail pipe moves about then the rear exhaust hanger is shot - again a common problem with this car. You can get a repair kit easily enough, or a good exhaust shop will sort it out.

It's surprising how even the pro's don't realise that there should be a hanger there. My V70 passed an Mot with the exhaust rear hanger completely missing! Again, we can't be sure that this is a problem, but it's easy to check and cheap to fix. If the exhaust is loose, it could under some circumstances be just enough to have a part of the suspension move against it, especially if the car has been lowered.

Cheers

Jack

SUBURBAN KID · Jun 27th, 2013, 09:35

Brake caliper piston binding? Happened to me before.

sye73 · Jun 27th, 2013, 11:14

Thanks again for your suggestions.
I saw the mech. remove the brake drum ; they had a look around and cleaned/check various components for wear etc. I had supplied a new set of shoes but he said there was so much left on the set already installed I was just wasting money. He then reassembled the disc/drum and did some adjustment through a 'window' in the drum itself. If I recall correctly, this is where some brake alignment was done.
I will jack the car up and have a look around, but I am confident it's not a rubbing in the sense of wheel/tyre/arch/exhaust .. the noise isnt consistent with this. Additionally, the only way I can stop the sound is by coming off the brakes, so feel they are at fault somewhere.

sye73 · Jun 27th, 2013, 11:15

I will look to see if the piston is binding ( this is what I think is most likely too ), although I don't know how far I can get with this myself. I'd be disappointed if this were the cause as they aren't that old ..

sye73 · Jun 27th, 2013, 19:50

So, today I had the NSR wheel off. Tyre wear perfectly even, no sign of rubbing / fouling.Exhaust + hangers also checked and all in order. Removed caliper pins (free ), pistons drawn into their housings fine. Lots of material left on both pads. The ONLY thing that I wasn't sure on was the following ; I couldn't remove the disc itself as despite not feeling it was fully secured (as in there was some movement and it was moving off the centre hub ), it would not fully release. Not being too familiar with what would be revealed behind the disc/bell, it felt like maybe brake shoes inside were holding it on..
Anyway, I have nothing else I can easily check whilst using a jack and limited knowledge..similarly, having used the car afterwards for 3/4 miles, it made the noise on occasion under braking but not consistently enough to demonstrate to a garage.

The sound is definitely mechanical. Other than that , lost !!

Jun 26th, 2013, 12:53	#1
sye73 Senior Member Last Online: Apr 16th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London View Photos By: sye73	Any ideas? Hi Hope that someone can help - I have a '96 855r that seems to have developed a loud 'groaning' noise. I am sure it's coming from the near-side-rear of the car and only happens under braking/turning left. The car was serviced about 2 months ago and all the brakes were looked at ( adjusted, cleaned and replaced where necessary ) so I'm pretty confident it's nothing to do with the braking system. Would I be right in saying that really only leaves wheel bearings to consider ? If so, does anyone know whether they should be replaced as a pair, and also any ideas how long the job should take a garage to complete ? Many thanks

Jun 27th, 2013, 09:35	#7
SUBURBAN KID Member Last Online: Oct 9th, 2014 18:21 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: leeds	Brake caliper piston binding? Happened to me before. __________________ 93' 240 se "resting", 96 850 T5 fixed.

Jun 26th, 2013, 15:04	#2
capt jack VOC Member Last Online: Jun 10th, 2024 19:15 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Selby, North Yorkshire	No, wheel bearings don't need to be replaced in pairs, but that doesn't sound like typical wheel bearing noise. It does sound as though it's more to do with the brakes. It's not really right to assume that because they were looked at 2 months ago they'll be OK now. Unless you feel comfortable in having a look yourself I'd suggest going back to whoever serviced the car as the first point of call. Cheers Jack

Jun 26th, 2013, 19:59	#3
sye73 Senior Member Last Online: Apr 16th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London View Photos By: sye73	Thank you for the reply Certainly, the noise only occurs when using the brakes so agree with what you're saying. What I also should've made clear to start with was that the sound was there prior to the service ; it was because I wasn't able to demonstrate it to the mechanic beforehand (as is the nature of something intermittent ) that he said ' .. all we can do is take a look at the rear brakes and see if anything is amiss'. I watched what was done and the condition of pads etc and all looked fine. Handbrake shoes were also checked and adjusted. I would be reasonably happy to take a look as I don't have a job currently and any way of saving some money would be welcome ; however, I'm only 'ok' with a set of spanners and also have no reason to believe I will find something the garage didn't. If I could bring the noise on, it would make things easier !

Jun 26th, 2013, 23:13	#4
cookie Lord B on T5D5.org Last Online: May 3rd, 2024 11:37 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: rochester	has car been lowered, have you had a good check of anywhere where wheel may be rubbing (like on inner arch liner where it meets wing) also were pins replaced on rear brakes, as they are usually as rusty as hell, and can make pads sieze

Jun 27th, 2013, 00:04	#5
sye73 Senior Member Last Online: Apr 16th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London View Photos By: sye73	The car is lowered, although its been running the same set up for many years without any issue. Additionally, it's not a tyre/arch/liner type noise .. thought earier infact it sounded more like a trumpet! The caliper pins are an interesting suggestion, although calipers were replaced all round about 18 months ago. Pads themselves are about 10 months/8k miles old

Jun 27th, 2013, 09:25	#6
capt jack VOC Member Last Online: Jun 10th, 2024 19:15 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Selby, North Yorkshire	When you say that they handbrake was checked and adjusted, how was this done? Ideally, the rear disc-drums should be removed, and the handbrake components all cleaned and copper-greased appropriately before being put back, and then adjusted. In fact, for what they cost, you might as well have new shoes fitted at the same time. The adjustment MUST be done via the adjusters on each wheel and NOT on the linkage under the centre console. Unfortunately adjusting the handbrake properly is a lot more difficult than simply tightening up the linkage inside the car, and so it can be tempting to take the easy option. One of the few weaknesses of the 850/x70 cars is the fact that the handbrake shoes can de-laminate and cause problems. I can't of course say for sure that this has happened in this instance, but it'd be worth a careful check. The other place to look for clues is the tyres. If your handiness with the spanners extends even only as far as wheel-changing then you'll be OK with this. Jack the car up and make sure that it's safely chocked and supported. Remove the rear nearside wheel and inspect the tyre very closely. The tread should be evenly worn across and around the tyre. Evidence of uneven tread wear could suggest that suspension components are worn or out of true. Whilst that side of the car is up in the air, and the wheel off, have a good look around to see if you can spot where anything might be rubbing - the exhaust perhaps, or as has been suggested, the tyre against the inner wheel arch. Lastly, just check and make sure that the rear exhaust hanger is intact. Grab hold of the exhaust tail pipe and give it a waggle. Movement should be all but non-existent. If the tail pipe moves about then the rear exhaust hanger is shot - again a common problem with this car. You can get a repair kit easily enough, or a good exhaust shop will sort it out. It's surprising how even the pro's don't realise that there should be a hanger there. My V70 passed an Mot with the exhaust rear hanger completely missing! Again, we can't be sure that this is a problem, but it's easy to check and cheap to fix. If the exhaust is loose, it could under some circumstances be just enough to have a part of the suspension move against it, especially if the car has been lowered. Cheers Jack

Jun 27th, 2013, 11:14	#8
sye73 Senior Member Last Online: Apr 16th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London View Photos By: sye73	Thanks again for your suggestions. I saw the mech. remove the brake drum ; they had a look around and cleaned/check various components for wear etc. I had supplied a new set of shoes but he said there was so much left on the set already installed I was just wasting money. He then reassembled the disc/drum and did some adjustment through a 'window' in the drum itself. If I recall correctly, this is where some brake alignment was done. I will jack the car up and have a look around, but I am confident it's not a rubbing in the sense of wheel/tyre/arch/exhaust .. the noise isnt consistent with this. Additionally, the only way I can stop the sound is by coming off the brakes, so feel they are at fault somewhere.

Jun 27th, 2013, 11:15	#9
sye73 Senior Member Last Online: Apr 16th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London View Photos By: sye73	I will look to see if the piston is binding ( this is what I think is most likely too ), although I don't know how far I can get with this myself. I'd be disappointed if this were the cause as they aren't that old ..

Jun 27th, 2013, 19:50	#10
sye73 Senior Member Last Online: Apr 16th, 2024 19:59 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London View Photos By: sye73	So, today I had the NSR wheel off. Tyre wear perfectly even, no sign of rubbing / fouling.Exhaust + hangers also checked and all in order. Removed caliper pins (free ), pistons drawn into their housings fine. Lots of material left on both pads. The ONLY thing that I wasn't sure on was the following ; I couldn't remove the disc itself as despite not feeling it was fully secured (as in there was some movement and it was moving off the centre hub ), it would not fully release. Not being too familiar with what would be revealed behind the disc/bell, it felt like maybe brake shoes inside were holding it on.. Anyway, I have nothing else I can easily check whilst using a jack and limited knowledge..similarly, having used the car afterwards for 3/4 miles, it made the noise on occasion under braking but not consistently enough to demonstrate to a garage. The sound is definitely mechanical. Other than that , lost !!

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