Engine 850: B5234T/2.3/20v/T5: THE definitive word on LPG for T5's....

[JOE 90]

Hi all,

I know that LPG conversions have been discussed a lot over the last 2 years...and have read most of the previous posts on this subject.

But new systems are always being developed and NOW some of our T5 colleagues have useful, useable experience to draw on.

I live in the sticks and work unsocial hours - thus avoiding the rush hour(s) - and manage to obtain 26/27 mpg on a regular basis. This, of course, on Tesco 99 and believe me , plenty of boot. Indeed, I have a theory that the harder you boot the motor the better the fuel consumption....but that for another time.

The - soon to be £5 a gallon - question is...IS LPG worth doing...what is the best system NOW on the market...what will installation cost...are there any downsides to LPG V Petrol on these powerful cars...and what is going to happen to the price of LPG...remember 'cheap' diesel 10 years ago...ain't cheap anymore!

Well, OK that is a few questions...but any thoughts on this ol' chestnut i am sure will be welcome by all of us who don't own a bottom less wallet!!

Many thanks to all for your thoughts.

Joe 90.

[earkle]

To be honest the only reason i went to look at my newly aquired 850, was because it was already converted to LPG!
Buying a volvo(gulp!) was not wot i saw to be a good thing to do(feul econ. 28mpg!! useless!) but after the first drive i felt it was the missing link to my driving lifestyle! and will never say never again!

but anyway because she has been converted before i bought her, i did a bit of researching and have came up with a few interesting points...

1/All LPG systems still run on petrol on start up(but thats it.bout £5 a
month)

2/Costs about £100 a year to service the system,ontop of normal servicing.

3/A new system costs per pot!, so a T5 system(£1900) is more expensive than a Subaru!(£1600)

4/Now, you can put LPG on turbo engines(newest systems)
{the garage that changed mine have converted a 512bhp Subaru with no bother at all!!}

5/ you used to loose 20% feul econ, now it's only 10%!!!(WoW!), and you only loose up to 5bhp nowadays!

6/ It is better for the world, and your pocket!(pocket savings from buying a diesel, and convert to gas!)wot i would do, not necessarly for everyone.

7/ It could be seen as an inconvience, but thats just same old England i'm affraid :0(

8/ Can't go fast on it, and have to lube the engine with petrol every once and a while...TOTAL Rubbish!!

9/ Tests have proven that when running on gas, the wear on your engine is almost nothing!(test engine run for 200,000mls,no service! and had the same wear as a 10,000mls petrol run engine!)

10/ All systems have an automatic switch over, so if you ran out. your not stranded! AND, you can switch from one to another whenever you wish.

Ok this is slightly one sided..LOL, but in other ways it's not really, As for the tax increase..who knows!, frankly i don't need to worry about it, coz in the end we all live in Rip Off Britian!, and until as a nation we learn not to Sh*t on the little Guy, the rich keep gettin rich, and the poor keep gettin poorer,
Well that and the overall lack of responsibility alot of people are trying to get away with within todays culture!, but thats a whole different discussion...


So in short, i say personal choice. (he,he!)

[Chris_Rogers]

Heres may take on it.

The conversion (about £2000) costs more than the car is worth!

For the cost you can buy 400 gallons of petrol even at £5 per gallon.

You have extra complication and extra servicing costs.

There is a risk that a poor conversion may cause engine damage, burnt valves etc. that will be difficult to prove as being due to the conversion so will probably end up at your cost.

You are possibly going to get a long payback time depending on your mileage this maybe longer than the remaining life of the car. You also run the risk that tax will increase and further extend the payback time.

[classicswede]

There are pleanty of advantages to LPG. Conversion cost is only about £1500 not £2000. At the moment gas prices are high to to massive profits from the gas companies not tax. Duty on LPG will only go up 1p more than petrol per year for the next few years. If the duty goes up to much them m,any ppl will end up using non duty paid fuel and lpg is undetectable.

Based on the £1500 conversion cost you will need to be spending about £50 a week on petrol to see your conversion caost back within a year.

As to performance about 5% loss in power on a n/a engine would be ablot the maximum loss - on a turbo car you can sometime gain a few BHP due to the extreamly high octane and superb fuel control form systems like the OMVL Piro.

Mike_Brace is the person to ask on the forum about conversions.

[earkle]

Well as i said, i ain't had my car long and i've just filled my lpg tank for the first time, and i was shocked to say the least!

I had travelled 192 miles and thought i'd better fill it up as i don't want to completely run out..and it cost £14 to fill the tank!!! £14!, i was stunned!

My car has the older system on(loses 20% mpg) and it still means it 's more econ than a deisel!

Outcome, A very happy bloke! Just thought i'd let you know.

[GavinC]

Here's my opinion: Anyone doing 20,000 miles/year or more on petrol - particularly in a relatively thirsty motor - should take a hardheaded, long look at lpg. If you intend keeping your petrol car for a few years at 20,000+ miles/year it's absolutely worth converting. If you are changing a car for another and interested in fuel cost savings be sure to consider not only diesel but lpg as well. Just make sure you get a professionally installed conversion. Do your homework, get the facts, do the figures, relate it to your own situation and you won't be at all disappointed! Altho' my car is a 960 - not a T5 - for high annual mileages it's very difficult to justify petrol even on high performance turbos now the technology can deal with it, IMO. There's another thread over the last few days to do with lpg under 'General Topics - General Volvo Issues & Discussions.'

[LPGjonderby]

My 1998 2.5 10v auto has done 90,000 miles with its previous owner on LPG.
Now 2,500 with me in the last 2 months.

I pay 46.9p a litre at our local BP garage, it goes significantly faster and pulls through the revs much harder on gas, to be fair, on petrol its somewhat gutless. This may be because the gas pressure has recently been upped on mine, in real terms its about 30-40hp to the good on gas.

Its returning around 22mpg on my 65 mile daily commute on the A50 & M1 at 80-85mph.

This is my third LPG car, so far other than the odd niggle they have all ran like a dream and loads faster and smoother. The oil stays cleaner for longer, the plugs last for longer etc etc.

The only problem comes when it does pack up and it costs more than £20 for 50 litres of fuel.

Lets just hope Mr Brown keeps the duty off it.

Cheers

Jon

[Tim 850T5]

Hi,

my T5 had LPG at 170k miles now done 87k miles on LPG.

It paid for itself in 17k miles. Runs well, car is still accelerating as you hit 130mph which is where I bottle out, with a full tank of LPG I can't tell the difference on accelaration between petrol and LPG

I normally run the LPG til it runs out so it switches back onto petrol then re fill the LPG at the next place, this helps keeep the fuel lines fresh and vehicle petrol (unlike aviation gasoline) goes off quite quickly. This will also put some additives under the valve seats, but I don't think this is too much of an issue with Volvo.

Due to the fact that there are a lot of butchers fitting LPG in UK which have no idea about performance cars I took the very good advice from George in Vlaanderen Belgium to have it done by professionals. So either in Belgium or the NL. I had mine done in NL by a guy with a shop, he races cars, does LPG fits on performance and large capacity cars. Basically LPG not problem on a performance or high capacity car if you know what you're doing, basically big bore piping and an injector for each cylinder.

Any questions feel free to ask.

[classicswede]

On Turbo engines you need a multi point system ( 1 injector per cylinder) for it to run well. 400 bhp is an achevable power on LPG without becoming complicated.
With high power engines installation is all the more improtant for good engine response and fuel efficiancy.
The most common fault I see with the T5's is the gas injectors mounted to far away from the petrol injectors. I can not undersatnd why this happens as its quite easy to get the gas injectors right beside the petrol ones.