Has it come to this.....?

[Bashy]

oops, i feel silly now, obviously nowt to do with the layout of the letters, goes to show you how my brain works, or does not for that matter

[Baxlin]

Originally Posted by Dippydog

A manufacturer whether in the UK or elsewhere will produce items for a known brand and also for the aftermarket.The theory is that the known brand items have to meet certain specification/quality criteria where the aftermarket ones don't,hence the price difference apart from anything else.

Not quite the same, but the above reminded me of when I had my Saab 93 convertible.

I wanted a blanking plate for the EGR valve, and was directed to the local Vauxhall dealer. OK, as Saab had been owned by GM.

What I have to admit I didn’t expect was to be sold a Fiat part by said Vauxhall dealer.

Or that manifold-end fuel supply pipe and unions from a Peugeot diesel were the same as on my BMW-engined Rover 75, which saved me £££s as I found them at a scrappy. Happy days.......

[green van man]

Originally Posted by Ian21401

Paul,
Would please elaborate on the “device” for measuring brake pad thickness without removing the road wheels?
Thanks,

Heres the bay number of the £16.99 Sealey item, I then used the similar item search to find the £.4.99 one..

E bay product I'D 11034143404.

Basically it's a long tyre depth gunge.

Paul.

[Welton]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

I know of a very high end bespoke hat manufacturer who now sources his products from the Far East because it is cheaper that way. He still offers a design service, but instead of making the hat sends the specification abroad.
On receipt of the merchandise, he now relabels it and forwards it on to his customers. He finds it more profitable that way.

What a great success story, I take my hat off to the guy

On a more serious note we can't realistically manufacture regular stuff here in the UK because we all need paying too much to cover mortgages, brand new A-Class on finance, luxury holiday's......

[Harvey1512]

Mycompany sells into the electronics mfr industry across Europe. Up until the early 2,000's we had a strong industry, plenty of multi nationals here. When the Czech Republic and Hungary joined the EU the multi nationals all jumped ship, without exception. Nothing to do with hift patterns or recruitment, those countries offered cheap land for factories and very cheap labour. They could save £0.01 per unit so off they went.

A few years later China exploded onto the scene and swathes of the same multi nationals jumped ship from Eastern Europe to China, same reasons, even cheaper land, even cheaper labour. Another £0.01 per unit off the cost price, woohooo.

The movement of factories around the world has little to do with skilled labour, lack of available labour etc. It is cost savings, pure and simple. I can give page fulls of examples of awful products, poor labour quality, lack of skills etc in India and China and yet that is where the big boys have de-camped to. It is money, don't blame home grown workers here or anywhere else across the world where companies have been and gone.

[Harvey1512]

Originally Posted by Welton

What a great success story, I take my hat off to the guy

On a more serious note we can't realistically manufacture regular stuff here in the UK because we all need paying too much to cover mortgages, brand new A-Class on finance, luxury holiday's......

Maybe employers also need to pay a minimum wage (at least), pay into employee pensions (NEST), national insurance, high business rates, energy costs, meet environmental standards, employee rights etc. All of those things that cheap labour countries don't bother with. It is not a level playing field, not even close to it.

We are largely a design and service industry nation now. We design products but get the mfr done elsewhere because price and cost is king. Until that attitude changes, until people will pay the real price for a product, then it will not change and we will remain dependent on other nations for key items.

[green van man]

Originally Posted by Harvey1512

Maybe employers also need to pay a minimum wage (at least), pay into employee pensions (NEST), national insurance, high business rates, energy costs, meet environmental standards, employee rights etc. All of those things that cheap labour countries don't bother with. It is not a level playing field, not even close to it.

We are largely a design and service industry nation now. We design products but get the mfr done elsewhere because price and cost is king. Until that attitude changes, until people will pay the real price for a product, then it will not change and we will remain dependent on other nations for key items.

Agreed Harvey.

In my example of the Sealey guage, I would happily pay £16.99 if it were a quality british manufactured item, but I know it's Chinese cheap manufactre and price inflated tat.

If I'm buying tat I want to pay tat prices.

Indeed, Halford proffesional range of tools, made in tiawan, or at least the 4 and 5mm alun key sockets that I break on a regular basis are. I have broken so many that my local store is now telling me there is no stock in the wear house until another batch arrives from the manufacturer.
Compared to the snap on set I have that has only needed 1 5mm blade replaced they are look nice ineffective tools.
The price difference, the Halford ones are £3.50 each, the snap on ones were £140 for the set of 6.

These days I seriously buy old quality tools rather than new poor quality ones.

I bought a record irwen number 4 smoothing plane for the daughters toolbox, the depth adjuster lever split on the second time of using it and now the fork has spread and no longer fits the adjust or wheel. £35 for poor named quality.
I replaced it with a secondhand 1960s record number 4 smoothing plane of wonderful quality for £22 including postage off e bay.

I have bought second hand snap on spanners of e bay for little more than the cost of cheaply manufactured new items, the inherent quality of the secondhand items makes them better value than buying new even after a decade of use.

Paul.

[john.wigley]

You are right, 'Harvey1512', it is all about money, and no, I don't blame the 'home grown' workers. But, as both you and 'Welton', albeit from different perspectives, agree, they are a business expense, a resource, an on-cost to manufacture.

They are also people, human beings with all the aspirations, hopes and fears that we all share. Personally, I regret the day when 'Personnel' became 'Human Resources', but that is the subject of another post.

I could show businesses how to save money, make more product for the same outlay (assuming a buoyant market), or make the same for less. I could show them how to make their production lines more efficient, their work flow slicker. This works not only to the benefit of the employer, but the employee also, in terms of higher job satisfaction and greater rewards.

No, I do not blame the workers. Most, in my experience, want no more than to do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. They despair when they witness at first hand inefficiencies and delays outwith their control. Simple things like waiting for parts - I've seen 20% lost time for that reason alone; is it any wonder that the workforce becomes frustrated?

The better employers acknowledge this and take steps to put matters right to both their benefit and also that of their employees - I'm sure from what you have said previously that that includes you. Henry Royce said that any job, no matter how humble, done well, is noble.

The less good will continue to see their staff as whipping boys or scapegoats for their own limitations. It is they who I think are most likely to go abroad and take advantage (I nearly said 'exploit') the lower standards and concomitant lower costs that that enables and to which you rightly allude.

I also foresee a time, perhaps not too far away, when the indigenous workers will no longer accept those lower standards. Then their costs will rise, making the product no longer competitive. That will give rise to yet more problems for the young Industrial Engineer to solve (except that we are not training any, but that is yet another story!).

It is not all gloom and doom, though. I also know of one UK manufacturer who sells his product into China, where, with shipping and taxes, it costs twice as much as at home. Chinese business men will go into the showroom, produce a brief-case full of cash, and say; "I'll take that one there". Any fault, no matter how slight, is not tolerated. The product is good, very good. It has to be, and is a fitting tribute to those who have played a part in it's manufacture.

Regards, John.

P.S. I hope that your business continues to flourish in these troubled times. J.