Seriously?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

My experience of ebay suggests that it will struggle to even reach £1750 as previous bidders will have found other cars to bid on and won't be interested in this one. There will be a few that had their heart set on this car - for a budget though and i suspect that budget is in the £12-1500 range and still likely below his reserve.

If you're adding a reserve, start the bidding really low like 99p, it won't sell until the reserve is met so why put buyers off with a higher initial bid unless that is your reserve.

I agree with you about the eBay experience Dave. This motor car will appeal to a very small group of bidders, most of whom will have noticed it being offered for sale 5 or 6 times at progressively lower prices. It may struggle to get off the ground this time, as you point out: anyone interested would have seen the bidding only make £1750 last time and will consider that the ceiling. They will also have seen the seller drop his price by £500 every couple of weeks and so might be waiting for it to get to the £1,500 range.

We also saw that car from Bude sell for only a grand last week, and it was about the same quality (maybe a bit better). Anyone serious about buying a 1980s 240 will have noticed that.

I can't help thinking that if the seller had started off in the £2,000 to £2,500 price range the car would have been sold by now. Instead he/she tried double that and has now almost exhausted the small market's patience. We see this all the time though - there are lots of middling to good cars being offered at £6,000 to £11,500 that never sell.

Ho hum.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Othen

Readers may remember I have a theory that:

d. Historic cars (1980 and older) will generally make 50-100% more than the above categories.

This car is a good test of that:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-244....c101198.m1985

... If the car was a 1987 model it would be worth £2,500-£3,500, but because it is 10 years older the seller thinks it is worth twice that... and perhaps it is? We'll see next week.

It looks like a nice enough car, it is a pity it has had the suspension lowered and so on.

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I think that 1977 244 is not going to be your average test, it's been too heavily modified and will only appear to a niche market that want it with those particular mods.

I would want it to be nearer original, much like the ethos behind the RB whereby the mods are largely hidden but improve daily use/driving such as the electronic ignition, AW71 box and so on. To put it back to near original spec would probably take another £2-3k making it a stupidly expensive car.

Originally Posted by Othen

I'd certainly agree about the rather silly modifications to an otherwise very nice car Dave. The seller probably thought he was doing something cool by turning his nice car into a bit of a boy racer, but he has (I think) detracted from its value in doing so. Perhaps he will fit a big bore exhaust and a 'Kev and San' sun-strip next... :-(

An update: eBay tells me that this one received no bids at the £6,000 starting price - in spite of the seller claiming it was a cheap car!

Whilst ostensibly a nice car, it looks like the rather silly modifications (lowered suspension, bling wheels and lower profile tyres) have seriously detracted from this car's value. It may well also be the case that £6,000 is just too much for a middling 244, even if it is qualified as an historic car.

I think both are true: if the owner had not bothered with the modifications and kept the car as a good original car it would sell much easier; it is true also that the car isn't cheap (as the seller claims) and £4,000 to £4,500 would be a sensible price.

The best course of action for the seller would probably be to return the suspension and wheels to standard, sell those parts (I suppose they might be worth something like £600-£800) and re-advertise the car at a more sensible price in the light of this failed attempt at a sale. I rather suspect that will not happen though: we will probably see this one for some months yet.

In this thread we are always happy to celebrate cars that sell well (like the Bude car that made just over a grand), but most of the time we end up lamenting sales that don't happen because the owners think their cars are worth much more than they really are.

:-(

[Othen]

This is an interesting one: a rust bucket that probably should become a source of spares, but it is a 1983 car, so I'm wondering whether someone may take a chance on it as it's close to becoming MoT and tax exempt?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174740991...cAAOSw1ChggDOV

To its credit, the car does have a MoT certificate (4 month's worth), but the last test shows lots of corrosion problems that will need fixing before the next:

body work starting to corrode in places
Nearside Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive outer sill (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Offside Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive outer sill (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Nearside Rear Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive inner wing (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Offside Rear Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive inner wing (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Offside Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive floor pan (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Nearside Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive floor pan (7.1.1 (a) (i))

... so, the car is as rough as a badgers arse and will need serious surgery this year, but what is its value? So far no bids at the opening price (£750) - watch this space :-)

[Thekilt]

Found these two today, very different end of the spectrums!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303958916...e5f5%7Ciid%3A1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324589962...e5f5%7Ciid%3A1

I dont know the rarity of these ones, but look very cool with the interior.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Thekilt

Found these two today, very different end of the spectrums!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303958916...e5f5%7Ciid%3A1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324589962...e5f5%7Ciid%3A1

I dont know the rarity of these ones, but look very cool with the interior.

I don't know anything about the 262 Bertone, but I do know both cars have been on sale for a very long time (months).

I have no idea whether the asking price for either car is reasonable - my gut feeling is both are much too high, which is borne out by the time they have been for sale - although there is probably an absolutely tiny market for cars like this.

I suppose the question is could the second car be made as good as the first for less than £19,000. If all it needs is a good respray that would only be about £4,000 - which implies the first car is grossly overpriced (although that doesn't mean the second car is reasonably priced at all). The second car is LHD, I have no idea whether that would be a significant factor, but even if it is I doubt it would be £15,000 worth :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I don't know anything about the 262 Bertone, but I do know both cars have been on sale for a very long time (months).

I have no idea whether the asking price for either car is reasonable - my gut feeling is both are much too high, which is borne out by the time they have been for sale - although there is probably an absolutely tiny market for cars like this.

A very small market indeed for the 262C Alan, especially ones with the handlebars on the wrong side!

The expensive one will probably sell for that eventually because they are so rare and it has a good deal of provenance.

Not so sure about the USA import car though, it wants £3k+++ of respray to get it looking like it should, not sure if it's camera angle, light conditions or what but the vinyl roof looks excessively shiny, almost as if someone has sprayed a vinyl roof on it so will want that looking at too. Another grand or two. Unless someone is buying it specifically to go touring in Europe, the LHD is a drawback, it could be converted but then it wouldn't be original and many people don't like driving LHD in the UK for obvious reasons. There are also many who don't care and generally (from my experience) they are already paying over the odds for insurance due to many accidents.....................

The big drawback for me on both cars is the B27 engine, much more fragile than the later B280 engine not to mention rougher, thirstier and less powerful.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

A very small market indeed for the 262C Alan, especially ones with the handlebars on the wrong side!

The expensive one will probably sell for that eventually because they are so rare and it has a good deal of provenance.

Not so sure about the USA import car though, it wants £3k+++ of respray to get it looking like it should, not sure if it's camera angle, light conditions or what but the vinyl roof looks excessively shiny, almost as if someone has sprayed a vinyl roof on it so will want that looking at too. Another grand or two. Unless someone is buying it specifically to go touring in Europe, the LHD is a drawback, it could be converted but then it wouldn't be original and many people don't like driving LHD in the UK for obvious reasons. There are also many who don't care and generally (from my experience) they are already paying over the odds for insurance due to many accidents.....................

The big drawback for me on both cars is the B27 engine, much more fragile than the later B280 engine not to mention rougher, thirstier and less powerful.

Thank you for that Dave. I had a suspicion you might know about these cars.

I'm always dubious about people valuing cars (or other machines) highly just because of their rarity. It is hard for me to imagine what sort of person would have a spare £23,000 plus the inclination to get this one for a collection and not drive it. It takes all sorts though, and not all people are tightwads like I am.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Thank you for that Dave. I had a suspicion you might know about these cars.

I'm always dubious about people valuing cars (or other machines) highly just because of their rarity. It is hard for me to imagine what sort of person would have a spare £23,000 plus the inclination to get this one for a collection and not drive it. It takes all sorts though, and not all people are tightwads like I am.

My knowledge on them isn't that great Alan but i've picked up various bits of knowledge over the years on them. I was offered one very similar to that first one (the £23k one) about 30 years ago for £250 complete with "private" (ex NI ) plate. Looking at the price of the silver one above, i missed a trick there!

Someone with more money than sense will buy it just because they can then keep it in a climate controlled garage (just because they can) then sell it in years to come, probably for a much higher price, just because they can.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

My knowledge on them isn't that great Alan but i've picked up various bits of knowledge over the years on them. I was offered one very similar to that first one (the £23k one) about 30 years ago for £250 complete with "private" (ex NI ) plate. Looking at the price of the silver one above, i missed a trick there!

Someone with more money than sense will buy it just because they can then keep it in a climate controlled garage (just because they can) then sell it in years to come, probably for a much higher price, just because they can.

I'm not so sure Dave. There is a huge difference between a dealer slapping a £23,000 price ticket on a car and it achieving that price. I've seen that car for sale for months (maybe even a year?) so it would seem to be it is as difficult to shift as a case of herpes.

I'm struggling to see why anyone would pay that much to keep a car in storage in the hope of selling it for much more in years to come.

I'm just a simple soldier :-)

[Laird Scooby]

I think it's all to do with the chat in the 19th hole Alan, some merchant banker or similar will be extolling the virtues of classic car ownership and how he keeps his 1979 Volvo 262C in climate controlled comfort and onlu uses it on high days and holidays so that in years to come it will be worth so much more because it will be one of a kind.

What he doesn't add is that the person who buys it 3 decades later to reflate his retirement fund will also be one of a kind but by then will be extolling the virtues of when cars actually had engines and could travel for thousands of miles with simple refills of petrol at conveniently placed stations along their routes instead of having to plug the thing in overnight to get a 90 mile range.