Seriously?

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

You may well be right Alan, I'm always amazed how many buyers never perform any sort of "due diligence" in regards to the location of the time.

That said some years back i was caught out by similar. In fairness i only found the item in the last 30 seconds of the auction and didn't have time to review the listing fully before placing my winning bid. I won it because it went cheap (no it wasn't a budgie! ) and then had an email from the seller and that contained the reason it was cheap. It was in some far-flung location in the British Isles with no postal delivery offered. I explained to the seller how i found the listing at the last 30s and apolgosed for not reading fully but if i'd known there was no postal option i wouldn't have placed a bid. It was a small item, perfectly reasonable to assume it would be posted as well so my mistake was understandable.
The seller graciously understood (i suspect he'd had similar mant times before) and Second Chance offered it to the next bidder down. Every other time i've bought something i've always checked the location, postage/delivery options etc.

Checking where the item is, investigating the likely background and so on is something everyone should do - caviat emptor and all that!

How our lives have changed in such a short time Dave. Before eBay (and the like) one would have only seen items advertised in the weekly or monthly 'inkies', which were generally not national (I recall ours was called the 'Thames Valley Trader' when I was a lad) because no one would commit to buying a motor car based on a tiny photo (perhaps) and 2 lines of text. Today the internet, all our other communications devices and far better courier services make it possible (and perhaps desirable) but view and buy items remotely.

On the whole this is a very good thing. One used to waste lots of time travelling to view cars and bikes that turned out to be nothing like their 18 word descriptions. Generally this means that more items get re-used rather than scrapped, which is a good thing. It is still possible for the seller to misrepresent the item of course, but more difficult now that digital photography is so widely available and digital records (like the governments MoT history tool) are so much more easily accessible.

With this car (and quite a number of other barn finds we discuss on these pages) there aren't many photos - and particularly not of the critical areas on Volvo 240s (wheel arches, sills and so on) so it would not amaze me if the buyer shows up to find a few problems - maybe that happened after the first 'sale'?

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

With this car (and quite a number of other barn finds we discuss on these pages) there aren't many photos - and particularly not of the critical areas on Volvo 240s (wheel arches, sills and so on) so it would not amaze me if the buyer shows up to find a few problems - maybe that happened after the first 'sale'?

:-)

The seller claimed the buyer fell off the face of the planet if you read between the lines of the relist Alan, however that could also be the buyer turned up, saw a rusty colander and thought "Blow that for a game of soldiers" or an Anglo-Saxon equivalent.

Alternatively it was our old friends the shill-bidders and had no intention of buying it, just bidding it up.

Will be interesting to see over the weekend if it reappears, might well be someone has put a genuine bid in and is planning on collecting over the weekend so a relist may be delayed.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The seller claimed the buyer fell off the face of the planet if you read between the lines of the relist Alan, however that could also be the buyer turned up, saw a rusty colander and thought "Blow that for a game of soldiers" or an Anglo-Saxon equivalent.

Alternatively it was our old friends the shill-bidders and had no intention of buying it, just bidding it up.

Will be interesting to see over the weekend if it reappears, might well be someone has put a genuine bid in and is planning on collecting over the weekend so a relist may be delayed.

I am as cynical as you Dave.

I'd considered your first option: that the potential buyer showed up last week, had a look at the rust and (reasonably) declined it as 'not as advertised'. I'd also thought of the shill bidding possibility - this second auction did end up uncannily close to the first (within about £50 I think). Now, that could be coincidence of course, maybe the same group of bidders was involved and were happy to bid about the same sums - or maybe the same couple of shill bidding accounts got to the same place but the others had dropped out. Who knows.

I know, I should have more faith in human nature - but people are people: some are honest and candid - and some aren't.

I would very much like to think this is a genuine old bus, and has been bought by a genuine bloke (sort of one of us) who will recommission it and make a nice driver, at the same time enrolling on this forum and posting some nice words and pictures about his experiences about the interesting Volvo he saved.

Let's hope so :-)

PS. First auction bids (I don't know whether the column formatting will work):

Bidder
Bid amount Bid time
Highest bidder.***0Feedback score (123)
£1,470.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:43:05pm BST
e***aFeedback score (138)
£1,450.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:42:34pm BST
r***rFeedback score (2)
£1,410.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:42:54pm BST
r***rFeedback score (2)
£1,370.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:42:00pm BST
o***lFeedback score (309)
£1,350.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:37:57pm BST
r***rFeedback score (2)
£1,310.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:41:46pm BST
r***rFeedback score (2)
£1,270.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:16:00pm BST
o***lFeedback score (309)
£1,200.00
21 Jun 2021 at 2:21:29pm BST
r***rFeedback score (2)
£1,150.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:15:10pm BST
r***rFeedback score (2)
£1,030.00
21 Jun 2021 at 3:14:36pm BST
v***0Feedback score (203)
£990.00
21 Jun 2021 at 12:05:40pm BST
9***0Feedback score (1158)
£970.00
20 Jun 2021 at 5:40:11pm BST
v***0Feedback score (203)
£968.00
21 Jun 2021 at 12:05:28pm BST
v***0Feedback score (203)
£928.00
21 Jun 2021 at 12:05:11pm BST
e***sFeedback score (1487)
£888.00
18 Jun 2021 at 10:46:24pm BST
9***0Feedback score (1158)
£850.00
20 Jun 2021 at 5:40:02pm BST
Starting price
£750.00
18 Jun 2021 at 3:43:13pm BST

2nd auction bids:

9***oFeedback score (506)
£1,410.00
24 Jun 2021 at 8:16:03pm BST
0***5Feedback score (0)
£1,390.00
24 Jun 2021 at 7:24:56pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,370.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:44:04pm BST
x***aFeedback score (309)
£1,350.00
22 Jun 2021 at 8:51:12pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,350.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:42:18pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,310.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:42:13pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,270.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:34:46pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,230.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:34:41pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,190.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:34:14pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,150.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:32:59pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,110.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:32:53pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,070.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:32:44pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£1,030.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:32:40pm BST
8***_Feedback score (2)
£990.00
22 Jun 2021 at 11:32:24pm BST
o***oFeedback score (180)
£950.00
21 Jun 2021 at 10:17:02pm BST
9***6Feedback score (1523)
£840.00
21 Jun 2021 at 11:10:31pm BST
n***dFeedback score (0)
£800.00
21 Jun 2021 at 9:43:19pm BST
1***1Feedback score (1487)
£777.00
21 Jun 2021 at 8:45:08pm BST
Starting price
£750.00
21 Jun 2021 at 8:16:10pm BST

... I know I'm cynical, but the patterns do look pretty similar: bidders with almost no eBay feedback history taking the bidding up to close to the closing bid in both cases. A bidder with a good eBay feedback history stepping in at the last moment to win the auction at the last mo.

I should get out more :-)

[Laird Scooby]

I totally agree on the bid patterns both times Alan, i'd venture a guess the bidder with only 2 feedback was the same person in each case - ebay randomly generates those bidder identities for each listing so the rest of us can't see it's the same person bidding again.

Maybe this bueyer will actually complete the deal along the lines of what you suggested and revive it to its former glory....................

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I totally agree on the bid patterns both times Alan, i'd venture a guess the bidder with only 2 feedback was the same person in each case - ebay randomly generates those bidder identities for each listing so the rest of us can't see it's the same person bidding again.

Maybe this bueyer will actually complete the deal along the lines of what you suggested and revive it to its former glory....................

I rather hope the latest bidder in genuine, buys the car and saves it also Dave - but it is a pity he/she has had to pay £500 more that necessary because of a shill bidding strategy.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I rather hope the latest bidder in genuine, buys the car and saves it also Dave - but it is a pity he/she has had to pay £500 more that necessary because of a shill bidding strategy.

Alan

Definitely Alan! Allegedly ebay doesn't tolerate shill bidders but so many do it and get away with it that they obviously aren't o the ball in terms of monitoring. Trouble is, proving it. Seen the same happen in car auctions - i remember being "run up" by shill bidders on a car i bought many year ago, it was still within what i wanted to pay for it so i wasn't worried but it was a cheap car, £125 and while it had some problems, none were insurmountable. Sold it a year or so later with a broken driveshaft for what i paid for it so no loss but no gain either.

Also during that same original auction i noticed several people around the room bidding then looking towards another person. Followed this for a few lots and sure enough, they were all working together to run the prices up. The auction house almost certainly doesn't care as that's how they make bigger commission when the prices are higher and ebay is no exception.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

That's the one Alan, i got the price a bit wrong and it's a GL not a GLE (it was the wheels made me think it was a GLE) but familiar nonetheless. It's on Pg 145 of this months (July issue) Practical Classics which should be on magazine shelves of your chosen emporium at the moment.

They presumably think people who buy cars from magazines don't use fora or ebay.........

I think his is the same nasty brown car from ‘Car and Classic’ at £2950 since 13 May… the owner has tried almost everything:

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1305559

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I think his is the same nasty brown car from ‘Car and Classic’ at £2950 since 13 May… the owner has tried almost everything:

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1305559

If you scroll through the pics on Car and Classic (a sister publication to Practical Classics) you'll see the last pic is the same one as on thew PC ad and was used on ebay for ages.

I'd say that clinches it!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

If you scroll through the pics on Car and Classic (a sister publication to Practical Classics) you'll see the last pic is the same one as on thew PC ad and was used on ebay for ages.

I'd say that clinches it!

Yes, I'm certain it is the same car Dave.

I rather suppose ads in PC and C&C are paid-for (rather than commission, as eBay might be), so it must be costing the seller a fair bit to hawk the motor car around. I do find it quite incredible that he/she has not realised a low specification 40 year old 244 in need of serious welding and redecoration as well as recommissioning isn't worth £3,000 - about a grand would be closer to the mark.

Ho hum :-)

DRN217W
VOLVO 244

Colour
Brown
Fuel type
Petrol
Date registered
6 August 1980
MOT expired on
11 March 2017

[Laird Scooby]

I think private sale ads are free in PC Alan, not sure on car and classic or Classic Car Weekly.

Either way there are too many coincidences for it not to be the same car. I suspect one of his mates told him it was "Worth three all day long" and his mate hasn't had the heart to tell him he meant three hundred not thousand!