V70: Suspension Rear trailing arm bush.

[simboc2004]

How many miles has your car done? And have you looked at the bushes to see if they are looking dodgy? After several years of MOT advisories and an increasing tendency to "bang" into potholes, I did mine and discovered that one had completely delaminated...

It's worth removing the plastic cover that's mostly hiding it, because otherwise it's very difficult to see it - hence advisories for what turned out to be a completely failed part!

[jasons6930]

Originally Posted by simboc2004

How many miles has your car done? And have you looked at the bushes to see if they are looking dodgy? After several years of MOT advisories and an increasing tendency to "bang" into potholes, I did mine and discovered that one had completely delaminated...

It's worth removing the plastic cover that's mostly hiding it, because otherwise it's very difficult to see it - hence advisories for what turned out to be a completely failed part!

It’s done 111k.

I’ve just been into our local dealer and typically it was silent when jumping up and down on it.

He sprayed some lube on it and that seemed to cure it but as I was nearly home it started doing it again!

I’ll try and get some pics as it looks like it’s squeezing out from the mounting but certainly not what I would call perished!

[jasons6930]

pic:

https://thumbsnap.com/KzVM***9


Vid:

https://thumbsnap.com/fDVnzvsX


Ive tried reuploading the image link but for some reason it keeps giving the same link so youll have to replace the three stars with capital eff you kay;

[simboc2004]

When it's OK the outer part of the rubber shouldn't be protruding at all, so it looks like it needs replacing to me. Here's a photo of the completed install of one of mine

[jasons6930]

Originally Posted by simboc2004

When it's OK the outer part of the rubber shouldn't be protruding at all, so it looks like it needs replacing to me. Here's a photo of the completed install of one of mine

Yes it doesn’t look good and after a bit more digging, I’m wondering if the body of the bush is moving in the arm causing the squeak.

Most of the videos I’ve seen have just shown the bush collapsed.

Volvo dealer has quoted £350 to supply and fit both replacements so I’m going to let them get on with it as I’m too old to be faffing about under the car these days.

[David123456789]

Replacement of rear trailing arm bushes on Volvo V70 D2 2011 in June 2024

Had to go there because my reliable mechanic who is experienced with V70 Volvos, after some months ago identifying the rear trailing arm bushes as shot and saying about £400 to replace them as it would take him all day, a couple of weeks ago pointed me to WAE as they have the tool and that's how they make money - he advised that their having a tool costing perhaps £700 meant thereby being able to inflate the price of their time. He expected them to charge £250. They wanted £300.

Indeed when I went there, and as my previous experience when I enquired about a service and learnt that even a minor service (oil and filter change) was well above £200, the girl was arrogant although with a blank page in what seemed a random notebook she jotted down details and in the promised hour called me to advise a price of just under £300 (some weird number, £297.93 or suchlike). Upon booking the car in and asking about time as I would be waiting nearby, I was told to bring it in at 8am, it would likely be the very first at 9am as there was no other vehicle being held over for that morning, but that it would take a couple of hours and so I might expect lunchtime.

Took it in at 8.55am, the gentleman was more neutral. Spent nearly 4 hours wandering Central Park, and as it was again starting to rain took shelter in their reception and saw the car parked inside their workshop. No, not even started, guy was a little truculent saying he didn't know they were under time pressure and that "there had been some miscommunication". I know this sentiment from others who are disorganised and uncaring and who use it believing it can shift blame. It would take a couple of hours to do. I sat there.

It took just over an hour, and that was with no particular hurry. Back came the man with 'good news and bad news' and looking happy about it. I've also heard this line before and along with watching his eyes was ready for the stalling or BS. Ah, the nearside hole for the bush was oval. He spent ages regaling me with what oval means, leaning back against the windowsill with all the time in the world, and how a round bush therefore falls about in an oval hole, how this was likely an MOT failure, no it wasn't, they didn't notice it, oh, regaled now with how scrap cars are down here, his hand was held low, new cars are up there, hand held high, MOT passes here, hand back down near the bottom, yes indeed absolute minimum and barely safe, you can't blame them. The dramatic hand waves accompanying the word 'oval' suggests what we would think of as oval, when compared with 'round' and to such an oval degree that one would expect the bush to have simply dropped out on the floor - prompting the question in my mind about how a replacement is going to stay in there. But say nothing and wait for the mouth to be run some more, and they'll be able to put in the new bush, it'll be ok so I can get home, no of course they wouldn't leave me without a vehicle but it'll have to come back and have the arm replaced. The arm might come complete with a bush, he'd have to check. Wouldn't run it for long without the new arm, oh no, no, no, they couldn't guarantee it, they use only genuine Volvo parts (strangely neither of the gentlemen delivering parts whilst I was there arrived in other than plain white vans or with boxes actually bearing Volvo markings) and again I'm struck by the inconsistency between an oval hole so bad the bush should have fallen out and the ability to fit the new bush and have the car driveable. Apparently they see many Volvos coming in for the bush but needing the complete arm replaced. Shame this is an MOT garage, but from this experience where it soon becomes clear that extracting money under pretences is the name of the game, I don't doubt MOTs here are an opportunity to fleece Volvo owners. Note that this is not a Volvo repair shop, it's an 'independent' (accountable to no one) Volvo garage. Waited what seemed like an age for him to run his mouth, then asked to see the bearing.

Taken into the workshop with the new bush already in the offside, and the trailing arm awaiting the rubber bush in the nearside. Told that this hole is oval. Can't see that. Told it'll only hold the bush here, and here. I'm surprised, as I can't see any wear marks, just some extraction rubbing. How do they know, no vernier calliper used to check - anyway there's no suggestion that the old bush was loose in the hole, indeed it required the tool to extract it as these bushes are an 'interference' fit meaning they require force to fit them (as do all bushes). Oh, the apparent manager had in reception waved his hands about in describing the hole as oval, actually significantly oval in that there would be no mistaking its oval shape when looking at it, I hadn't asked whether the bush was loose as I was watching his eyes to determine the times when he was making it up, and was augmenting the correct reading of eye movements by his language in distancing himself from the story with shifting the specific reference to arms length reference such as with 'when that sort of thing happens' and 'in that sort of case'. Children do this, they'll also clasp a hand over the mouth but we lose that as we grow up, but some never lose the other signals of untruthfulness.

The trailing arm is a long arm of thick sheet metal sitting on the vertical and attaching the car's subframe to the wheel assembly a couple of feet to the rear; where it's joined to the subframe there is a round hole about the size of a coffee mug diameter into which the bush is pressed. Around that hole is a ring of metal welded into the 'upright' arm so the bush is held firmly. This ring of metal is the one supposedly oval, but not only could I not see this but the mechanic on the other side of the car confirmed it had needed the tool to remove the bush. Well, it was either loose or it was not. A bush has an outer ring of metal, in this case about 1mm thick although the manager was sure he was looking at, what, 2mm or more, then a core of solid plastic/rubber and at the centre the mounting for the trailing arm to attach to the sub-frame. By this device the trailing arm can rotate slightly as required by the wheel's vertical movement in its suspension, and road vibration is not transferred into the car's frame. All these suspension points have a little movement, thus 'tracking' adjustment of the wheels on the vertical and horizonal axis compensates.

We offer the bush up to the hole, it will obviously again be an interference fit, and I'm now completely puzzled by the assertion that the hole is oval. With its welded metal ring 2mm+ thick and captured inside the hole in the vertical trailing arm, even if the old bush had been loose and worn or had broken its outer ring, there would be less than 1mm movement possible. It would be the plastic/rubber inside that would in time fail, unlikely that its outer metal ring would become loose in its fitting - as, long before any damage could occur to that metal ring, the wheel would be so loose as to make the car almost undriveable. Unless the trailing arm itself had buckled, and this clearly was not the case and I doubt would be possible except for in a severe accident. Indeed where you have an interference fit you will need to allow by design for one component to take the form of the other, this is normally achieved by making one of the components malleable and in the case of a bush perhaps by being thinner, and why intellectually would this not be the case?

It might now be tight in the hole, but the geometry would be wrong. Oh, yes, yes, the geometry. Well, if he's pretending 1mm movement in a suspension component is going to have the car going sideways, I'll leave him to play with that idea on his own.

Now understanding the game, and relieved all this was BS, I said it's fine to complete, and I'll just watch from over there whilst the bush is refitted. Oh, no, can't have anyone in the workshop, insurance you see, but missing the fact I am already there whilst another mechanic is wandering around doing very little on the adjacent car. As really, would this guy have read his insurance document? I have read such insurance documents, I'm used to people resolutely quoting what isn't actually there in the mistaken belief, because they would struggle to comprehend the language of such a document, that this is the case for everyone; indeed I write property contracts. Indeed, why would the main door to the garage be wide open if such limitation were true. I'll let you put the bush in, then call me and I'll come back to look at it.

The bush is in, I come back to check. The manager looks for the daylight between the bush and its circular ring housing. I look. There is none. Was it a tight fit, I ask the mechanic. Oh, yes, it was! It's taken the shape of the housing, declares the manager. Well, with a 1mm ring holding the rubber/plastic bush material, and going into a ring welded inside a circular hole formed within the trailing arm, why would it not be designed to do that? Anyway, the bush is sitting nicely and exactly where it needs to be, I may be amongst idiots but that disability belongs to them. I go back to reception, another 20 minutes and and I hear the wheels nuts being tightened, although it's a fair time until the job is declared finished and perhaps because I'm very obviously out of sight of the workshop. Out of sight, not out of hearing, and neither was I out of hearing of the office girl at the start talking to someone about what job was needed to be done rather a long time after I came back and sat in reception.

It's always disappointing being treated like a fool by people who know nothing about you, for example that my first business was motorcycle repairs and that I rode a Triton formed from the 6T engine with E3134 high lift cam, dual Wal Phillips fuel injectors and a Norton slimline frame that unfortunately came with shot swinging arm rubber bushes that I had to replace with line-reamed phosphor bronze. But apart from the knowledge that a nearly 70 year old inevitably picks up in life, logic and clarity of thought serve well in determining BS.

Sure, give me a price on a replacement trailing arm. Volvo genuine £440, oh that's plus VAT, total with 2 hours' fitting £770. So that's about £100 an hour for labour, same hourly rate as I guess the replacement of the bushes at £300ish including 20% VAT and £50 bushes came to. You'd hope that such a high hourly rate would buy time efficient work and thereby be a fair deal. You would have hoped.

£299.88 was the bill. Labour £180 +20% VAT. "Left rear trailing arm has worn oval. At the bush aperture due to excessive bush wear. The new bush has taken the shape of the bush aperture and the bush is secure within the aperture but ('a new' deleted) a new trailing arm is required."

I can't get over how silly that sounds when written down. Surely not only to me?

But I missed something obvious. When I stood looking at the trailing arm wedged down under a bar for easy access and awaiting its new bush, I was struck by the space around it in which to work, the disassembly simplicity of this job and how allowing a couple of hours for even a novice would be ample and include the obligatory time for a cuppa, but mostly by what looked a need for a really simple and standard bearing extractor. £700? Really. Later I see them at £65 or less on eBay. Teaches me not to trust anyone but to take time to think through the entire subject, and just because my regular mechanic is experienced and diligent at V70 Volvos it does not mean the same for his knowledge of the price of an extractor or indeed his enthusiasm to Google the price.

Damn!

[Kev0607]

Not that I agree with the experience you had, nor do I know the garage that did the repair of have any affiliation to them. I've picked up on a few things that I think are worth mentioning...

If you're "reliable" mechanic takes all day to replace trailing arms bushes, he isn't experienced. You can't become experienced in doing jobs on cars if you haven't got the right tools to do the repairs. You can't press bushes in with your fingers after all. If he hasn't got the tool for the trailing arm bushes, that says to me that he either isn't interested in doing them or doesn't want to.

With regards to not being able to stand in the workshop and watch the mechanic doing the repairs, that's exactly true. You aren't allowed into the workshop by right. If you aren't an employee of that business like a mechanic or office staff, they have every right to tell you leave the area. That's for your own safety. There's a lot of heavy equipment in a garage and its not an environment for customers to walk around and explore or be in. To be in a workshop, you should be trained to be in there and be dressed appropriately (steel toe cap boots, gloves, overalls). You can't just walk in with a pair of trainers (well, you can, but you can be told leave). I don't know what you were wearing on that day, but I doubt you dropped your car off dressed like a workshop employee. As you don't work there, they can tell you leave the workshop anyway. You may not like it, but that's true. Why do you think there's "Customer waiting areas" in garages?

If someone from the HSE visited that garage for an inspection and seen customers wandering around the workshop, they (those responsible) would have serious questions to answer. Don't be so naïve. No one wants someone stood watching their every move and especially around heavy/expensive equipment that could seriously injure you or even kill you, especially if you aren't trained in using it.

As for the doors being open... ever heard of exhaust fumes? Cars are often running in garages to diagnose issues. So they leave the doors open to let fresh air in. Vehicles can often be brought in and out of the garage too, so as opposed to opening and closing the door all the time, they leave them open. Yes, the doors are open... Its not a pub. You can't just walk in and have a gander around the workshop.

If you remove a suspension component like a spring, shock absorber, track rod end or trailing arm bush... it needs an alignment after replacement. You will never get the geometry right just by removing a bush and fitting it again. That's why a car needs an alignment after suspension work, to get the geometry back to where it should be, as per the manufacturer's specifications for the car.

As you were in business at some point yourself, you should have an understanding that the hourly rates aren't just solely for the labour of a particular job. They (the owner of the business) have expenses to pay... Utilities, rent (possibly), business rates, staff, lease charges for tools, expensive diagnostic equipment and so on. That money doesn't just come out of thin air. That's why labour charges have gone up. Just the same as your weekly shop in the supermarket is more expensive than it used to be, the operating costs of the garages have gone up too.

If you suspected it was all "BS", you had every right to refuse the repair, but you didn't. What you're doing is complaining after you've already paid for the job to be done on a forum. You should have complained to the garage. I bet you just paid the bill and didn't say a word, then broadcast it on here like a typical keyboard warrior.

[David123456789]

Kev0607,

I'm sorry that the time taken to include items of value to those considering doing similar work were of no value to you, and that much of the information I included to give context was taken as needless complaint. I won't take issue with your post as I presume it was written with good intent.

A forum is for sharing experiences that may help others. If this turns out not to be a forum with the type of person who values information from others, I'll edit my post down appropriately and limit my interaction to purely reading.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by David123456789

Kev0607,

I'm sorry that the time taken to include items of value to those considering doing similar work were of no value to you, and that much of the information I included to give context was taken as needless complaint. I won't take issue with your post as I presume it was written with good intent.

A forum is for sharing experiences that may help others. If this turns out not to be a forum with the type of person who values information from others, I'll edit my post down appropriately and limit my interaction to purely reading.

By all means, you're welcome to share your experience. Thank you for posting it.

However, as forums are for discussion, its not uncommon for people to offer their opinion on such experiences.