New Generation XC60

[simonjedrake]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

Ignorant also

At least you are constistent

Bill. It's so easy to wind up our friend "Kev78", he just like a child at times.
Maybe the moderators will put him back in the naughty corner again and revoke his membership of this forum.

As sensible adults we all have different views that as we grow up we learn to respect and accept views that diverge from our own beliefs, its just that sometimes children like playing with fire.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by nu11eaf

I advise you to actually look at the cargo area of the V90 then look at the room in the XC90, the V90 cargo area is really very small due to the rake of the tailgate and low roof line, my dog would not be able to fit in the V90, its a hatch back not an estate, I took one look at it and dismissed it instantly, compared to the XC90, the V90 is a really small low car. The XC90 is bigger has more leg, head and shoulder room a much, much bigger cargo area, its just a shame about the road noise issue. But still by a country mile a far better estate car than the V90.

My dads just had a V90 on 24 hour test drive. You must have a f***ing big dog.

[foggyjames]

Originally Posted by Kev78

I own a Volvo you idiot.

Volvo could bring out a Flintstones car and you and Rory would be at the front of the queue with your Volvo hats and jackets. Saying this is the way forward.

Youre a unobjective fool who thinks everything Volvo is great when obviously crap compared to the competition.

Alright sunshine...calm yourself down, or the ban hammer will be coming out. No need to be rude to people to get your point across.

I will be giving my thoughts dreckly, as the Cornish would say...

cheers

James

[foggyjames]

So...my thoughts, with my moderator hat off...

I remember when Volvo first announced that the XC90 would only have four-pot engines, and I think everyone, including Volvo-fans, thought they'd lost their marbles. Various people, myself included, bemoaned the lack of a 6-cylinder diesel in the P2 and P3 platform cars, never mind a drop down to 4-pots! I then took a step back and thought about it a bit more, listened to some of what Volvo said about the decision, and concluded that it was actually a pretty shrewd move. Here's my reasoning:

1) Who bought P2 XC90s? People who wanted the friendly face of an SUV, IMO. That's why they ended up selling only D5s - the smaller petrols became uncompetitive, and people who wanted a V8 were always going to get an X5 or Range Rover anyway...because of the image.

2) The emissions/tax landscape is changing, and fast. Downsizing, apart from for seriously niche markets, is the future. They were the first to announce it, and the fact that others have followed (albeit they'd probably already made the decision) supports the suggestion that, in view of the tax situation, it was inevitable.

3) Introducing a narrower engine allowed the chassis rails to be narrowed, which massively improved crash protection. The SPA 90-series cars are currently numbers 1, 2 and 3 in EuroNCAP's chart. The new Q7 scores worse. Look at the low-offset crash performance for the 90s (and, arguably, the new XC60 performance is even more remarkable, given its smaller frame). I have it from an JLR insider that nothing they have in the pipeline will compete on that front. So there was some method in the madness there.

The motoring press has been highly positive about the 90-series cars...surprisingly so, to me. Clarkson described the XC90 as having the best interior this side of a Bentley. Cheap suspension components? The P3 platform (including my V70 and the mk1 XC60) share suspension components (and brakes) with Fords, so that's nothing new! I also see few ill effects from it on my P3, much as it pains me to say it.

Also bear in mind that development of both the platform and those engines will comfortably pre-date the Chinese buy-out, so they're probably not to blame. What they probably are to thank for is the sharp rise in the overall quality of the interiors. The P3 platform cars were cheapened in various ways compared with their predecessors by Ford (you could even see it within the P2 platform - thinner floor mats, cheaper connectors - lots of little details, year-by-year).

I firmly agree that the XC60 will compete with both the Tiguan and Q5...but I think it will do so on favourable terms, to the right buyers. My friends have a late-model mk1 Tiguan, and it's not remotely as nice inside as my P3 V70...not even close. I just don't buy that the interior quality in the Skodas is on a par with my experience of the new SPA-platform Volvos. I think the Skodas are good for the money, but you really do get more with Volvo's offering.

So...I'm not convinced by the build quality argument, nor that the fundamentals of the platform are 'cheap'. That really just leave the engine issue. I do buy that one - it will put some people off. Yes, if you are a serious performance-head, the lack of larger engines is an issue, but Volvo have been off the pace on that front for many years...and there are plenty of other brands to choose from if that's your thing.

For my money, Volvo are carving out a nice niche for themselves as providing cars for people whose priorities lie more in interior comfort & quality, together with low running costs, rather than the outright driving experience. And as someone who covers circa 40k miles a year, that sounds very appealing to me. I'd happily have a V90 for the motorway, and something significantly more exotic than a 530d for the weekend!

And yes, there have been some unfortunate quality issues, but those will get resolved. Frankly, I wouldn't dream of spending my own money on the first couple of years of production run of ANY car. Early P2-platform Volvos weren't good, reliability-wise (especially the electronics), but later ones were among the most reliable cars ever made.

And no, I don't have blind faith...but they are a genuinely attractive offering for my needs. If I needed a single car to do it all, I'd be looking elsewhere, for sure (unless a D6 hybrid comes out), but because I scratch my performance itch with a second car, I'd happily take the "luxury Passat" option which the V90 represents.

cheers

James

[tt82]

Originally Posted by Kev78

I own a Volvo you idiot.

Volvo could bring out a Flintstones car and you and Rory would be at the front of the queue with your Volvo hats and jackets. Saying this is the way forward.

Youre a unobjective fool who thinks everything Volvo is great when obviously crap compared to the competition.

There is no objection to negative comments about Volvo as a brand but your attitude towards other members is not welcome. Calling people 'fools' and idiots' will not be tolerated! I would ask that you consider your choice of words more carefully in future!

[Chief inspector]

Ive seen the comments on costs, my R design nav lux with winter pack and front parkies was about £39K list.

I cant seem to configure leather, but otherwise soec for spec it comes out £41K, plus its now AWD and automatic, so at some price points, the list is much the same.

Must say though, I don't really like it and for similar money think the V90 is the only Volvo that appeals to me, its a year before I will be looking anyway.

[NickHoward]

To add another perspective to the argument.....

I'm under 30 (just) and have had an XC60 for the past 3 years (A6 and A4 before that) - I'm lucky in that the A6 was a company car, but the XC60 was bought as the family started to grow.

In the past 3 years, I've had absolute no complaints with it at all (D4 FWD) - The build quality has been solid, the exterior looked sharp, and the interior was fine (it wasn't amazing, and looks very aged now - But it's not bad).

When it came to looking for a new car at the start of the year, I turned to the "obvious" to see what was on offer - Volvo, BMW, Audi (with Merc and Skoda at either end of the scale).

I had hoped the new XC60 was going to be out, but clearly I was a bit early for that - None of the others had an SUV that I liked, was competitively priced, and ticked the boxes.

Moving onto estates (I have a dog) - It was a similar story with the other manufacturers - Audi A6 was due an update. Not a fan of the 5 series (looks/cost point of view), E Class was pricey for what you got. So it came down to the new V90 and Skoda Superb Estate.

Whilst the Superb is better value for money IMO, the V90 really stood out when sitting in it and test driving it. Yes it's more expensive, yes it has had software issues, but there was a certain quality to it which I didn't get in any of the other cars I tried.

It's all opinion of cause, but I prefer the styling of the new Volvos (both inside and out), to all of it's rivals. The fact that it's a few thousand pound cheaper when specced equally was just an added bonus.

Regarding the D4 engine - I really don't see the issue. It's been perfectly fine in my XC60 for the past 3 years, and I wouldn't want anything extra - I don't need a performance car. I need a family car which looks good, and has a quality interior (but still offers a bit of oomph if needed).

Again, this is all personal opinion, but if you want a high performance car, there are plenty of options.

As for the new XC60..... I'm not sure why that's priced higher than the V90 other than taking advantage of the fact it's their best seller?

I like the new XC60, I like the D4 engine, but I'm very happy I went down the V90 route.

Lastly.... Someone said they couldn't fit their dog in the boot of a V90.... What dog was it (I'm guessing something massive, cause even with the sloping boot, it's still a large space).

[andrewpain]

Originally Posted by Kev78

I think that if Volvo cared about private buyers they would offer a range of engines. Like EVERY OTHER CAR MANUFACTURER.

They offer 1 diesel and 1 petrol in various states. In everything from a v40 to a Xc90. That is truly pathetic. It's too much for many potential v40 buyers and woefully inadequate for a Xc90. That is fact, not opinion.

Volvo obviously don't care about private buyers and want a bigger piece of the corporate market. The cars are designed to look good on car parks, but cost little in tax. Hence the ridiculously expensive optional stereos and wheels. All very "unvolvo" IMO.

The engines and suspension are unforgivable and inadequate for such expensive cars. As one v90 owner recently agreed on this thread.

My comment on the Porsche was meant to highlight the massive gulf between the 2 cars. They are not rivals in anyway, shape or form.

I chose the Xc60 because it is a well spec'd daily driver with 240bhp and AWD for the price, nothing come close at the time. I like the D5 too, it's much better than the new version. Although tbf the xc90 is heavier than my xc60. The new D5 also sounds really cheap at tick over.

The X3 3.0d is a much better car, but it's ugly and I've always liked the x5. It wasn't worth the extra or the wait.

I wasn't aware of the issue with the GLC coupe. I've seen a few around and I like them. Not looked in depth or at reviews as I want a bigger car next time round.

I nearly boght an X3, especially when What Car got a deal with Park Lane BMW. That brought my well-specced X3 down to a whisker under 41K. But the XC60 was £7k less, lacking only heated rear seats and i-Drive. And I wasn't forced to have run-flats, or oversized wheels.
I thought the XC60 went as well as the X3, handled well-enough, and had better running costs. £7k saving was a bonus.
At the end of the day this is all about what we THINK, and what we FEEL.
No need to get short-tempered with each other about something so inconsequential - a real first-world problem!

[pagan8c]

I have the V90 D4 and as far as I am concerned it is a very nice place to be when driving . I have had no problems with the equipment and the engine is quiet enough to me . I would agree that the sloping rear door causes a slight problem of space but having said that I have a crate in the back which holds my 2 small dogs with space to spare.With the seats down there is acres of room. The XC70 P3 I traded in had more rear space but as there are only 2 of us and the dogs we are still not cramped even with stuff in it for the Caravan. My problem is the height in that when we ordered it we had not seen 1 but having owned this since October we decided it was a tad to low to make getting in and out comfortable as we both suffer back problems. Because of that we have ordered the XC90 Momentum D5 after having our garage let us have 1 for a few hours and being able to appreciate the height and space. I again did not find the car noisy or the engine corse or underpowered but as we are not sports car drivers the idea of having 0 to 60 in 4 secs or whatever is not needed . I too looked at the Q7 but didn't really like the shape and to get the same extras would have cost us many thousands more so the XC90 will be the one for the next few years.

[wimorrison]

On pricing a mid range XC60 was around £35k in 2008 when the XC60 started and this equates to £43k now which will get you new model a mid range XC60. I actually think the new XC60 is more than the 2008 version as the finsih, toys and engine are superior to what was around then