940 saloon on ebay

[TonyS9]

While there are always a few who have good memories of 200/700/900 series the main market has always been the old gold market, cheap, reliable, long lasting. This market is not compatible with the expensive classics market. They are working cars and still working hard, not so much cherished IMO. I stil love my 940 but I cherish my 360.

360s were cherished by a few and rarer now than 200s/700s/P1800s, but only a unmolested top nick one will fetch classic money.

The 5 cyl culture was wipped up into a frenzy with racing culture, its entirley different. Also there are just not as many of them lasting and many had the desire when they were younger.

I can't see anyone ever making money restoring a 200/900 to sell on the open market. We have programs like Goblin Works making a pigs ear of a 240 and selling it for £30K, to me that is just not realistic. Even though my Dad had one, its a working car not a desirable one.

Certainly a good condition car is worth good money, but restoration projects are scrap/parts value IMO, but that isn't £1200 for a redblock turbo and M47 GB. Still at least you got the right flywheel for the 360

The longer term value of combustion vehicles will crash soon with the take up of BEVs, except the really desireable classics. A BEV converted 940, now that could be something useful.

[volvo always]

In 2009 I bought a 1989 240 GLT auto estate for £350.

I drove it for 10 years, 8 years as my daily. When I sold it, It needed a good tidy up and various jobs doing and a dead heater fan but still drove well.

It covered 76,000 miles with me and I sold it with 234,000 on the clock for £500 with 4 months MOT. The new owner had spent a fair sum on it and it looked great.

As you say the RWD Volvo represents excellent value. Be interesting how prices go!
When cars are all electric in 20,30,40,50 years, be interesting to see what happens to petrol cars! Probably a scrappage scheme and classics only allowed out a few times a year to a car show of old!


James.

[TonyS9]

I'm predicting the BEV change over will happen pretty rapidly. Maybe 80% in 10 years. CV19 is really kicking it off, main problem being battery supply now. All the legacy brands are not setup to supply current demand. My FB is awash with EV adverts with people commenting how long they have been waiting and how much Toyota or Nissan are not selling much qty of their EV models deliberately.

New combustion engines banned from 2030, diesel ban in many cities already, expect that to spread to more cities and probably petrol too after 2030 depending on how well NOx and particles drop.

The only exemption might be towing but at the current rate of progress I don't expect Towing range to be a big problem in 10 yrs. Worse case, I think a fair technical exemption is to allow the very best efficiency (emissions-wise) generator on a tow item like a caravan/trailer/horse box.

Final kicker will be V2G, which is bubbling under now, but starting to take effect. Tesla didn't support it, now they will it gonna take off. Means you can make significant money from your car.

MFRs will be giving away combustion cars and Hybrids in 5 yrs time, or have gone bust.

I think old petrol cars will be exempted, maybe mileage limited, but I might convert the 940 and/or the 360 anyway.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by TonyS9

I think old petrol cars will be exempted, maybe mileage limited, but I might convert the 940 and/or the 360 anyway.

Convert to LPG in that case. At least it doesn't have the problems the Devils Fuel does and is also better than petrol.

They will need to do some serious work on the grid infrastructure as it can barely cope with the demand of normal domestic use at present, never mind everyone plugging in their EV to charge it so it can manage to go 30 miles round trip the next day.

The other problem is going to come in a few years time when the first of the batteries from EVs is dead and is sent to decompose somewhere, we'll end up drowning in some toxic, possibly acidic solution from the things. Then where will all this eco-warrior-greenness have got us? No drinking water as it's all been contaminated by chemicals leaking from vehicle batteries into the water table. What about the carbon footprint for making these EVs?

Stick to an old Volvo, put it on LPG and do the real green thing!

[bob12]

That one is what I would call 'green at the gills'!!

Bob

[TonyS9]

Seriously Dave for some reason I didn't expect you to come out with such propaganda, having an electrical background.

To bring you up to date Tesla's batteries last over 400k miles, but the end hasn't really been explored yet, even early leaf batteries are still useable after 200k unless they have been especially abused. It's also a legal requirement to recycle batteries that do eventually need recycled after being through an EV conversion or grid storage, they can't be put in landfill. Other mfrs are now using battery temperature management systems and now waiting for batteries to not fail. 2020 battery announcements are claiming 1.2m miles and lower cost.

For electicity supply the National Grid has stated that everything is fine, but that smart grid, which was needed anyway will be needed and hugely beneficial for the Grid and EVs.
Also FYI the grid has dropped 10GW (1/3) in the last 7yrs due to more efficient products. Typical average halfhouly demand is 30GW max, grid total capacity is 180GW (some if which is temporary peak supply).

Batteries do indeed need more energy than engine Mfr currently, however carbon emissions are not required. Large battery and EV car plants, having large roofs, generate and store alot of solar power. It would not be the best idea to build batteries with coal power, but most govt's are moving away from that and building renewables power instead, it will take a few years.

Batteries have already replaced, successfully and cheaply, peaker plants, without producing additional CO2. V2G will allow cars to store and return several weeks of UK demand.

LPG while cleaner than diesel still produces CO2, its a lesser evil and only intended to tide Electricity over until there are enough renewables and batteries.

LPG burnt in combined cycle gas turbine can achieve 60% efficiency, a combustion engine can't crack 30%. Batteries and motor efficiencies are in the 90%s. Also a greater and greater portion of Electricity is renewables, and batteries will allow that to increase as some wind is wasted at night and likely to increase.

[Laird Scooby]

Firstly Tony, i resent your use of the word propaganda. That implies i'm simply regurgitating someone elses opinions/views which i'm not. They are my own views from information i have gathered over a period of time, much like the views i held in 1983/4 about using diesel engines in passenger cars. I was proved right on those - despite the fact it's taken nearly 40 years for the "scientists" to wake up and smell the coffee or diesel fumes.

Two things bother me about what you've said, first you don't seem to be taking into account the carbonn footprint of manufacturing new cars, regardless of their motive power. That is huge by any stretch of the imagination.

Second is you seem to have swallowed all the "positive" propaganda about EVs without questioning it. If you have questioned it and i'm wrong then i apologise. However your post doesn't read as if you have questioned it.

As for abusing the batteries in EVs, that's virtually a given - how many people do you know that don't get what the manufacturers say out of their mobile phone batteries? How many of those batteries are replaced, only to fail a few months later but the owner isn't worried because they're upgrading soon? It won't be long before the same thing happens with EV batteries, they will be abused, they will fail and then will be consigned to scrap.

As for V2G, that's the biggest con i've ever seen!

After feeding in their charge to the grid, how do those vehicles get back home?

That's right, they need recharging!

How would you feel if your local petrol station said "Bring your car in, we'll empty the petrol tank and give you 60p/L for it then so you can get back home again, we'll sell you another tankful at 120p/L"?

It's exactly the same idea!

If the NG are now using batteries to store excess power produced during OP times and then feeding it into the grid via inverters, that can only be a good thing but where do those inverters come from? What is their carbon footprint? Also where does the heat they produce go to? What is the confirmed life-span for the batteries that are storing this surplus power? What was their carbon footprint during manufacture? What was their impact on the environment to be manufactured?

There's a lot of unanswered questions here. I liken it to the analogy of hippies in the early 70s pootling along in their 2CV at 30mph thinking they're saving the planet. Behind them is a 1.5 mile queue of traffic screaming along in second gear trying to get past and in so doing, producing more emissions in that one journey than that 2CV and its hippy owners will ever save.

I still think there's a much better option out there to provide fuel for internal combustion engines - LPG is a good stepping stone but as you've pointed out, isn't perfect. As a domestic fuel, LPG wins with CHP and if every home had a large, buried LPG tank feeding a small CHP gas turbine unit that might be an improvement. Obviously that could be expanded, i already know of complete blocks of flats using a single CHP gas turbine for their heat and power needs.

Maybe hydrogen fuel cells are the answer but at the moment, cost is prohibitive.

There are still too many unanswered questions on electricity/batteries as a motive power for transport IMHO that i think we're going off half-c0cked with it and will live to regret it, just exactly the same as we've done with diesels and catalytic converters.

The medical implications of cats are still to be made public and i wouldn't be surprised to learn they are almost as bad as diesel fumes. We already know H2S is highly toxic not to mention acidic when dissolved in water.

The ideal solution would be the universal solution - water. People have allegedly come up with engines capable of running on water but their ideas have been bought (usually by petrochemical companies) and then neither them or their ideas has ever been heard of again. Urban myth or fact? I don't know. Interesting idea though.

[360beast]

I've got the solution everyone... Legs!

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by 360beast

I've got the solution everyone... Legs!

I prefer the anti-gravity engine and hyperdrive but my neighbours won't lend it to me.

I'd settle for a few ionic lifters and thrusters though!

[MiniNinjaRob]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The other problem is going to come in a few years time when the first of the batteries from EVs is dead and is sent to decompose somewhere, we'll end up drowning in some toxic, possibly acidic solution from the things. Then where will all this eco-warrior-greenness have got us? No drinking water as it's all been contaminated by chemicals leaking from vehicle batteries into the water table.

You need to do some better research before spouting all that crap. All batteries in the UK are recycled, especially larger ones. Plus as they will be in vehicles if they ever get to be scrapped there is a legal duty for them to be removed, stored, treated and reused/recycled in accordance with high environmental standards and by appropriately trained and knowledgeable people. I would be very certain they would be very carefully recycled due to the expensive metals in them which will be reused.