Follow on From VADIS Statement in Support forum

[migrator]

Tony,

I am another IT person (for 34 years) and I am happy to say that I drive Volvos (for over 25 years). Mainly older models although I did have a recent foray into 960 and V90. My IT time is mainly mainframe and not much PC.

[Dan F]

You just had to didn't ya!! ;-)

Still I was close.

Laterz.

What about instead of tweaking each part of the cars database, surely one could be cloned from another. If you had the full database for say 5 cars (with the same software versions) you could check to see all the fields that are for that car only, and then just copy the rest of the fields. After that if one car paid the £20 for an upgrade, the rest could just download it and copy it to their car. That would at least minimise the risk of killing your car :) This assumes that there is no encryption used. A few insurance write-offs could be used to test it.

If the nice people at Volvo are reading, my suggestion is they add a wireless device to the engine computer so we could drive to any dealer, park the car, and while it gets the latest software, we can have a look at their latest offerings. It could even tell the dealer how we like our coffee and to get one ready! Now that would be cool :)

They already have something similar. Volvo On Call. It looks amazing. Calls the AA in the event of a breakdown and all sorts of freaky stuff. I believe you can even call Volvo and have them unlock your car if you lock the keys inside. I'm sure it could be adapted to the coffee thing too.

Andy

[Wentworth Man]

What goes around comes around, mainframes are back in fashion - much easier to manage and allocate resources as and when and where they are needed.
I am a heretic, I like thin clients :)
Tony

[Simon J]

If you look at the Volvo Tech Info site in the US (www.volvotechinfo.com), you will find that you can buy the necessary kit to hook up to your car from your Volvo dealer and you can buy the downloads.
(See https://www.volvotechinfo.com/index....Ainfo.viewWSDA)

You can even buy a three day subscription to VADIS for $30. Snag is you can only do this using a credit card with a US billing address!

Now why can't we get this here in the UK?

Simon J

Simple - because they can get away with it. As I said it is illegal in the USA to restrict / remove a persons right to access their own property or to force people to use specific traders.

Hi Tony,

The software in the ECU that controls our cars DOES belong to us. It has a part number like any other Volvo part that you can buy, and it has to be paid for like any other part before it can be downloaded. I think that the law would have something to say if Volvo was able to re-claim software from your car which would then be undriveable! Imagine that - Volvo sucking out the software from your car one day, so that it won't start.

Also, Volvo would end up in a legal pit as a result of such an action, because this would fall foul of the 3yr / 60K manufacturer warranty legislation. If the car doesn't work, then Volvo are legally responsible to fix the problem if the failure was caused by them. So, if your car doesn't start because Volvo have removed the ECU software because they claim it belongs to them, then they would legally have to put it back to fix the car!!!

Adam.

ps. most of our customers are in IT too!!!

[Simon J]

I don't think it is a case of legality or illegality so much as Volvo UK not offering certain options on the UK market, which presumably they are quite entitled to do. If one then purchased the software, from the US for example, and managed to get it installed, Volvo UK would not accept any warranty obligations for the newly installed equipment and related software, nor for any problems that its installation might cause. They previously quoted to me that they once had to bring a car from a dealership to their own workshop to sort out a massive electrical failure caused by something being added that shoulnd't have been! My particular bugbear at the moment is trying to get the software for electrically folding mirrors for my C70!

Rgds,
Simon J

P.S. The downloads that you can get in the US are one car only, one time only, which seems fair enough unless for some reason you need to reinstall it!

[Wentworth Man]

Adam,
Without going into the whys and wherefores on a subject that might not be of interest to many, legally, unless Volvo have actually given us the rights to that software, I suspect that we have the use of it but the Intellectual Property remains theirs. Doesn't mean I necessarily agree nor that I am right but, as there is no concept of an End User Licence Agreement to scrutinise with the embeded software I dont think we could say it is our property. (If we could see the actual code there might be ;) )
If Volvo want to change the software, they can and they can resrict its use as well - ie marketing options in some countries, models and not others.
Buying something does not mean ownership - ask anyone who thinks they have bought a CD recently as to wether they own a CD, the music, the music in another format etc and all the fuss about mp3s - you are buying a use in a defined media.

We have the same views on restrictions as they do in the US but we have a stronger consumer rights than they do. As to would Volvo remove the software, no they can't as it is embedded (well they could but that is another subject) but they can reconfigure it if they want to. I think we had better read the small print on any warranty as there will ineveitably be appropriate wording that says something along the lines of if you change, modify or adapt except where undertaken by a proper authorised Dealer then Warranty shall not be applicable - it is a standard commercial get out, much like car insurance and notifying them of any changes in circumstances (different brake discs!) and am sure they would only remove/ reconfigure the software if you were changing the software which caused a problem in the first instance.

Having said all that, I think on board software should be Open so that those that could genuinely improve it could do so and help Volvo have the ubiquotous car management software that does what we want it to so we buy more Volvo - as do others!

Geeks and Cars, whatever next?

Tony