She is here (pics) / XC60 vs X3

[S60Chris]

Originally Posted by NewVolvo

Also interesting to read your comparisment with the X3 35d, especially as it's a smaller car of the two with a much bigger engine (I have the same engine in my 535d although now tuned to 365bhp!) and I can certainly relate to quite a few points with the Volvo and the Bmw.

I bet thats a machine and a half! I had a 2011 530d M-Sport (241) prior to the X3. The build quality was much better in the 5 series, probably about the same as the XC60. It felt much more solid, but the 5 series was a bit slippery in the wet and a bit low & firm for the roads out here.

[S60Chris]

This is what I put on the BMW forums:

Yesterday evening we took delivery of a Volvo XC60 to run alongside our X3. The XC60 will be the OH's car, replacing the Land Rover Discovery which whilst excellent, spend most of its time either at the dealership being fixed or consuming obscene amounts of diesel. It's the new MY14 model Volvo which has the updated front end (DRL's have been moved & the grill widened) and the rear end sees the addition of awesome looking integrated exhausts. Inside sees a revised dash with a fully digital speedo.

The XC60 has the 'D5' engine which is a 2.4 litre Twin Turbo 5 Cylinder 20v common rail diesel engine. It produces 215bhp and 440nm of torque, mated to a 6 speed automatic gearbox. It's a torque convertor box, not double clutch.

It's not as highly specced as the X3, but came in £15,000 cheaper. It is, however, the highest spec offered in the SE Lux Nav guise and we have added a couple of options such as keyless entry, tinted windows, Volvo On Call, Spare Wheel & front/rear parking sensors.

When comparing list prices, the Volvo XC60 D5 SE Lux Nav Geartronic comes in at roughly £3,000 cheaper than a BMW X3 35d. This is before any options are added, and not taking into account differing levels of discount available.

Given many people come on here that may be considering different models from the current crossover lineup, I thought I would do a little comparison - just as I have done on the Volvo Forums. This will not be entirely fair as the SE Lux spec in the Volvo is perhaps more related to the SE spec offered with the X3, rather than the MSport that I have. Volvo do offer an R-Design version of the XC60 with firmer suspension and a sportier appearance and more supportive seats. Most of the points in this review/comparison are relevant though as the engines/gearbox/build quality remain the same.

BMW X3 35d MSport
•BMW Engines are years ahead of the competition. The 3 litre straight 6 twin power diesel outputs 313bhp yet returns 47mpg on a long run. The Volvo will in reality return 10mpg less than this, despite having 100bhp and 200nm of torque less, and of course being 600cc less in terms of engine size.
•The 8 speed gearbox is much more suited to a drivers car than the 6 speed box offered in the Volvo.
•iDrive offers slightly more functionality than Sensus, though both are similar.
•Both of these cars have the top spec diesel engines available in their lineup. The BMW reaches 60mph in comfortably less than 6 seconds, the Volvo takes 8. You can specify a Polestar upgrade at the point of ordering, this will add 15bhp but costs £800+
•BMW offers HUD - not available on the XC60
•BMW offers Top View cameras which are not available on the XC60
•BMW steering wheel is chunkier and nicer to hold.
•Handling is much better when pushed.

Volvo XC60 D5 SE Lux Nav AWD Geartronic
•The build quality and general fit & finish is far superior than the X3.
•The doors are chunkier and make a satisfying 'thud' when closed
•Keyless entry is on all 4 doors not just the front 2, and there is a physical lock button on the handle meaning the car won't get confused when being washed.
•The seats are supremely comfortable - much more so than the X3.
•Fully digital dashboard with selectable themes work very well.
•Illuminated cup holders as part of the winter illumination package
•Volvo offer radar guided cruise control on the XC60
•City Safety as standard - not an option on the X3
•Volvo offer a cool smart adaptive headlight system that automatically blanks out oncoming vehicles when on main beam, rather than just having to dip the lights.
•No run flat tyres (this is subjective - some will see this as a good thing, some as a bad thing)
•Not as involving to drive. Not a car that makes you want to drive fast.
•Excellent standard stereo. I'm no audiophile, but it sounds better than my £980 premium BMW stereo. That hurt!
•On Call is not standard, wheras I think the equivalent is on the BMW.
•Xenons are standard on this model, whereas even on the 35d the Vis Pack needs to be specified.
•Mirrors fold immediately on locking without needing to code the car.
•Electronic Handbrake in a silly place, and no Auto Hold feature

In summary, I wouldn't pitch them as direct competition against each other. On a day where I want to go and throw a car around some bends and have some fun, I would take the X3 without a shadow of a doubt. On a long journey, I'd take the Volvo. I also feel safer in the Volvo. Whether this is accurate or perceived due to brand image, that I will hopefully not need to find out.

I'm very impressed with the Volvo

[Crockers]

Interesting write up....

Now if you had to choose one car which would it be??

How have your BMW forum members received your write up?

[S60Chris]

Crockers:

Three replies on the BMW forums to my write up so far which read as follows...

I still cannot get pass that ugly Volvo interior.

Thank you for the comparison. Since I'll be considering both of these cars in the future (though probably not a diesel version). I am disappointed there's no HUD in the Volvo - whenever I go from my car with HUD to my husbands car without it drives me crazy. I've gotten so used to I'd definitely want it in the future.

How do you find the Sensus vs the iDrive? Is it easier to use? That's one area where I think bmw is really lacking. I hate using it because the iDrive has 20 steps when it should take about 3 (I'm exaggerating but since my first bmw in 06, I've hated the system).

Thanks for the comparison. Its rare that you can get an objective comparison short of doing what you did - ie buy one of each. In time I'll be interested in hearing the long term comparison.

Pretty much agree with your points. When we got our X3 30d two years ago, it was between the X3 and the XC60 D5 after a string of Volvos (our second car is a C30 T5 which we are currently looking to "upgrade" to a V40 T5). The Q5 simply did not figure in our final deliberations.

The main reason for finally going with the X3 30d over the XC60 D5 was the engine. The D5 engine was simply outclassed in every aspect with respect to performance, fuel economy and especially refinement. I would expect this difference would be even more so between the 35d and the D5. I appreciate that for our North American colleagues the X3 35i vs XC60 T6 (especially with the optional Polestar tune) might not be so clear cut.

Volvo still make the best seats in the business for long distance drives. We regularly go on 800km/10hr drives and the seats in the X3 while being OK, are simply not in the same class as Volvo seats for those long trips.

As you say, the runflats on the BMW are a love/hate proposition. We overcome this issue (at the expense of reduced luggage volume by replacing our runflats with conventional tyres at delivery, together with a full size spare permanently tied down in the back.

The minor things about the XC60 we didn't like was the silly location and action of the electronic handbrake (and the Volvo doesn't have the auto-hold function the BMW has) and the fact that the panoramic roof on the Volvo only had a fabric-type blind as opposed to the solid blind on the BMW.

Overall over two years of X3 ownership (our first BMW) we would still go with the X3 over the XC60. But as I said in an earlier post, the XC60 certainly is not disgraced in any comparison with the X3.

As for which I would choose, well three months ago I chose the X3 when I had the option to buy most things. I went for the X3 because of the storming performance (it's a very, very fast car), the fuel economy (having read that the D5 provides disappointing mpg in comparison to figures advertised), the in car technology such as the excellent head up display and top view cameras, and the fact that due to my profession I qualify for the BMW International & Specialist Sales scheme which gives me about 20% discount + a very favourable part exchange price.

Would I make the same choice again? Now thats not so clear having experienced in a bit more detail the excellent build quality of the XC60. I absolutely adore the 5 cylinder engine but it is a real shame they aren't going to mate it to the 8 speed box in order to get a few more mpg out of it. I also wasn't aware that a 20% discount was available on the XC60 at the time I ordered the X3. I paid £49,000 for the X3 - would I pay £49,000 for it all over again? Probably not. I'd go and test drive the Audi SQ5 to see if that was any good, and then gravitate back towards the Volvo and save some money. The X3 is untouchable in its class save for by the SQ5 and the XD3 Alpina and it is a lot of fun to play with out on the twisties round here. The Volvo would and could never provide the same amount of entertainment, but i'm finding more and more that I enjoy comfort and sophistication over speed and agility. I'm fortunate enough to get my fix of fast driving in my job, so a relaxing drive is appreciated much of the time. Don't get me wrong, the D5 is no slouch - 8 seconds is respectable and good enough for some decent B road overtakes, and it's not incompetent through the bends either. It's just not set up to be the drivers car that the BMW is.

[NewVolvo]

Originally Posted by S60Chris

I bet thats a machine and a half! I had a 2011 530d M-Sport (241) prior to the X3. The build quality was much better in the 5 series, probably about the same as the XC60. It felt much more solid, but the 5 series was a bit slippery in the wet and a bit low & firm for the roads out here.

Mine's the F11 M-sport with almost all extras available Including the trickery suspension thing (forget the name) that makes it ride very nicely even on potholed filled roads.

It certainly does shift now (was never slow with a std 313bhp!). According to the figures it's about 0.5s less to 62mph and a whopping 4.5s between 80-200km/h (50-125mph) faster than standard. They do make these boxes also for Volvo btw....

While living in the UK for 15 years I only drove Volvo's except for 3 years with a MB C320 Cdi and a E55 AMG and would never look at Bmw's due to their "reputation". But as soon as we moved to Germany, the Volvo's turned out to be way to expensive so I looked at the Bmw's instead and my first one here was a 2007 E91 330d M-Sport. Also that was tuned, although not by me, to 280bhp.

In the UK we also had a XC60 and found it to be a very lovely place to be in although ours was Black Metallic with Black interior and the "Ikea" wood. Classy. It was not particular fast, despite having 205bhp and the 6-speed auto is and was already back then, very outdated although smooth.

At heart I am a Volvo man in and out, having grown up in Sweden and with mum and dad only driving Volvo's But I find nowadays that they engines/gearboxes really is a letdown. The new engines are only to be 4-cylinder and to me this is a really big let-down and mistake if they want to keep up with the competition.

But I get my Volvo thrills in wife's new V40 D4 and my old 780

Originally Posted by S60Chris

Crockers:

Three replies on the BMW forums to my write up so far which read as follows...







As for which I would choose, well three months ago I chose the X3 when I had the option to buy most things. I went for the X3 because of the storming performance (it's a very, very fast car), the fuel economy (having read that the D5 provides disappointing mpg in comparison to figures advertised), the in car technology such as the excellent head up display and top view cameras, and the fact that due to my profession I qualify for the BMW International & Specialist Sales scheme which gives me about 20% discount + a very favourable part exchange price.

Would I make the same choice again? Now thats not so clear having experienced in a bit more detail the excellent build quality of the XC60. I absolutely adore the 5 cylinder engine but it is a real shame they aren't going to mate it to the 8 speed box in order to get a few more mpg out of it. I also wasn't aware that a 20% discount was available on the XC60 at the time I ordered the X3. I paid £49,000 for the X3 - would I pay £49,000 for it all over again? Probably not. I'd go and test drive the Audi SQ5 to see if that was any good, and then gravitate back towards the Volvo and save some money. The X3 is untouchable in its class save for by the SQ5 and the XD3 Alpina and it is a lot of fun to play with out on the twisties round here. The Volvo would and could never provide the same amount of entertainment, but i'm finding more and more that I enjoy comfort and sophistication over speed and agility. I'm fortunate enough to get my fix of fast driving in my job, so a relaxing drive is appreciated much of the time. Don't get me wrong, the D5 is no slouch - 8 seconds is respectable and good enough for some decent B road overtakes, and it's not incompetent through the bends either. It's just not set up to be the drivers car that the BMW is.

Interesting comments, also some I can agree to. A bit suprised about the Volvo interior being "ugly". Best seats in the business, a truly ergonomic dash and quality materials that very often beat the others nowadays, incl Audi (that is now starting to use cheaper materials).

But they major difference between a Swedish Volvo and a German Bmw is that the swede is "lagom" in almost every department and does a great job and not hardcore like the german. A Volvo is made for wisking around a family safely and the german is truly built for fast autobahn's in Germany.

[S60Chris]

Originally Posted by NewVolvo

Mine's the F11 M-sport with almost all extras available Including the trickery suspension thing (forget the name) that makes it ride very nicely even on potholed filled roads.

It certainly does shift now (was never slow with a std 313bhp!). According to the figures it's about 0.5s less to 62mph and a whopping 4.5s between 80-200km/h (50-125mph) faster than standard. They do make these boxes also for Volvo btw....

While living in the UK for 15 years I only drove Volvo's except for 3 years with a MB C320 Cdi and a E55 AMG and would never look at Bmw's due to their "reputation". But as soon as we moved to Germany, the Volvo's turned out to be way to expensive so I looked at the Bmw's instead and my first one here was a 2007 E91 330d M-Sport. Also that was tuned, although not by me, to 280bhp.

In the UK we also had a XC60 and found it to be a very lovely place to be in although ours was Black Metallic with Black interior and the "Ikea" wood. Classy. It was not particular fast, despite having 205bhp and the 6-speed auto is and was already back then, very outdated although smooth.

At heart I am a Volvo man in and out, having grown up in Sweden and with mum and dad only driving Volvo's But I find nowadays that they engines/gearboxes really is a letdown. The new engines are only to be 4-cylinder and to me this is a really big let-down and mistake if they want to keep up with the competition.

But I get my Volvo thrills in wife's new V40 D4 and my old 780

Interesting comments, also some I can agree to. A bit suprised about the Volvo interior being "ugly". Best seats in the business, a truly ergonomic dash and quality materials that very often beat the others nowadays, incl Audi (that is now starting to use cheaper materials).

But they major difference between a Swedish Volvo and a German Bmw is that the swede is "lagom" in almost every department and does a great job and not hardcore like the german. A Volvo is made for wisking around a family safely and the german is truly built for fast autobahn's in Germany.

Ah the VDC (Variable Dampers) - I got that for my X3 and was one of the reasons I changed as my F11 didn't have it. I found the F11 crashy over bumps which is why I made sure to get the VDC. I'm glad to report that even though we didn't spec the 4c on the Volvo, it rides very nicely over the lumps and bumps - probably helped by smaller rims and larger tyres.

Agree with your comments about the engines, it's a crying shame the engine lineup will lose its soul. If BMW can get 47mpg from a 6 cylinder performance diesel, I'd have thought Volvo could have achieved high 50's with a bit of work on the smaller 5 cylinder by engineering the new fuel monitoring systems etc into the existing block. But saying that, in a world of pressure surrounding emissions, getting CO2/Km down is probably more important than keeping enthusiasts happy. The dealer told me that by 2020 the company has to sport an average of 95 grams of CO2 per Km.

I agree with what you say about the interior - I think it's great. I found it to be much more Premium than the X3 and Q5 with which it contends. My test of an interior is how much play the heater/volume/media knobs have in them when prodded. The Audi offerings feel cheap and wobble when poked. The BMW is a bit better, firmer and better seated, and the Volvo is good.

The seats in the Volvo are untouchable and aren't even the expensive 'inscription' ones.

[NewVolvo]

Originally Posted by S60Chris

Ah the VDC (Variable Dampers) - I got that for my X3 and was one of the reasons I changed as my F11 didn't have it. I found the F11 crashy over bumps which is why I made sure to get the VDC. I'm glad to report that even though we didn't spec the 4c on the Volvo, it rides very nicely over the lumps and bumps - probably helped by smaller rims and larger tyres.

Agree with your comments about the engines, it's a crying shame the engine lineup will lose its soul. If BMW can get 47mpg from a 6 cylinder performance diesel, I'd have thought Volvo could have achieved high 50's with a bit of work on the smaller 5 cylinder by engineering the new fuel monitoring systems etc into the existing block. But saying that, in a world of pressure surrounding emissions, getting CO2/Km down is probably more important than keeping enthusiasts happy. The dealer told me that by 2020 the company has to sport an average of 95 grams of CO2 per Km.

I agree with what you say about the interior - I think it's great. I found it to be much more Premium than the X3 and Q5 with which it contends. My test of an interior is how much play the heater/volume/media knobs have in them when prodded. The Audi offerings feel cheap and wobble when poked. The BMW is a bit better, firmer and better seated, and the Volvo is good.

The seats in the Volvo are untouchable and aren't even the expensive 'inscription' ones.

I looked up the spec sheet for my car and it's actually one step above the VDC.... the Adaptive Drive. Truly brilliant Many people on here say that speccing 4C transforms the Volvo's. Saying that wife's V40 with R-Design (very hard) suspension is actually harder than the Sport or Sport+ setting on my F11! Both corners very well but the Bmw with more confidence, probably due to the hefty weight of 1970kgs! The V40 Geartronic with it's 6 speeds really miss another gear or two when doing fast speeds. For example, in the F11 I can do kickdown 2 gears at 112 (it changes up to gear 7 at 148) the V40 would deffo benefit from another gear at that speed (112) although it keeps going until about 225km/h (140mph).

My car also has the 4-wheel steering (crap!) and I would not spec that again. I had an issue affecting a knocking sound on the steering rack due to the 4-wheel steering. At least they changed it under warranty but took me a looong time fighting with them.

I also find the leather quality to be below par compared to a Volvo. In fact, I find all the german makers to be below Volvo with the seats + leather quality. Although my F11 is far from "uncomfortable". The seats (sports seats) are actually very hugging and do a great job in keeping you "in the seat".

Buttons, knobs and the like are ok, but does not have Volvo quality to it. iDrive I find to be very good however. Sound system is fantastic (harman kardon upgrade with surround sound). Had the top system in our XC60 (as well as in a previous V70 and wife's V40) and they are very different from the Bmw or MB offerings. The germans are more "hardcore" and can blow your head off (no pun intended!) despite having similar power. Perhaps they use different speakers?!

Re fuel consumption, I get around 36-37mpg on avg in the F11. Over 45mpg on a long run, even at fast speeds. V40 is currently at 40mpg on avg (but only has a 3500 mls on the clock) and does well over that on a long run.

I do think Volvo have a good thing going with the new VEA engines and will bring the fuel consumption and CO2 down to a level where the Bmw's are, but the major difference being that the german's have 6-cyl engines with the same CO2 as Volvo does with it's new 4-cyl.

I do alot of miles every year and feel the "need" to have 6-cyl for the power and fast stints so one can get to where one wants quick all over Europe. Sure, a smaller 2-litre engine would do the job just fine, but I doubt I would get much better mpg as over here one tends to "push" the cars more to get to the magic number of 200km/h and thus pay a penalty on mpg.

For smooth cruising I use my B280E equipped 780 with it's 4-speed slushbox. In fact, it's not slow at all and at one point was the fastest car between 20-50km/h or something like that

[BilboBaggins]

Very good writeup Chris

[logiejames]

Beautiful motor .

Have you used the Volvo OnCall app (assuming you have either an iPhone or Android phone)?

[XCeed]

That is a lovely XC60 Chris and I hope it serves you well...

Thanks for your comparisons with the X3 which particularly interested me as the X3 was my first 4x4, back in 2004. At the time, it was the subject of a lot of derision, but I always liked mine!

I moved on to Mercs before graduating to my present XC60...and I have not regretted it. Perhaps it's an age thing, but I just love the comfort and safety aspects of the XC60. I am no boy racer, but I feel the XC60 is fast enough, smooth enough and agile enough for my needs.

BMs and Mercs may be faster and more agile, but the downside is that their sportier suspension set-up means they crash along on anything other than really smooth roads. Not helpful if you have a back like mine!

The other point is that you definitely pay a big premium to drive the German marques. I am not sure I'm prepared to buy that any more as their quality control these days seems as dubious as any other makes.

Fortunately, my car is not yet two years old so I have no need to change it for at least two years. By then, the new Volvo cars/engines will be bedding in so plenty of time to assess their impact. Right now, I feel I might do well to stick with my so-far faultless five pot, but we will see!

I will have a look at the upcoming Merc GLA but it will have to be exceptional to tempt me!