Waterless coolant

[cheshired5]

Originally Posted by Claymore

I can't see manufacturers putting coolant into their engines that would cost 4 times more than antifreeze.

Why not?
If it works like the supporters claim, it would be a selling point, especially on prestige brands.
£120 on top of a £30k+ car is hardly going to cause uproar.
You could even offset costs by having it as a £75 factory option.

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

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How does running the engine hotter using this stuff reduce the stress on the cooling system?

? the engine doesn't run hotter with waterless coolant, but it doesn't pressurize therefore less strain on pump, rad and pipes.

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by Claymore

? the engine doesn't run hotter with waterless coolant, but it doesn't pressurize therefore less strain on pump, rad and pipes.

The engine runs significantly hotter.

Water has a specific heat capacity of 1 whereas this fluid has a SHC of around 0.6 therefore it cannot cool the engine to the same extent as it can only absorb 60% of the heat compared to water. This means that the engine runs hotter, which means that you need to increase the octane level of the fuel. It also places the head gasket under a lot of stress as it isn't designed to run at a higher temperature. It is even worse if you run it unlressurised as the thermal efficiency of fluid increases as you increase the pressure, ergo pressurised water is even more efficient than unpressurised waterless coolant.

Regarding the pump strain, there is no difference whether the coolant is pressurised or not, all it does is circulate the fluid and the pressure is almost equal on both sides of it. The term pump is arguably incorrect in an engine, it is actually circulator.

I have asked around some classic car restorers that I know and they universally decried this solution for the very reasons that I describe above.

[Claymore]

very interesting information, totally different result to my experience, I always had a overheating issue with normal coolant in my hillclimb car, haven't had a single problem since switching to waterless coolant, but I suppose I'm just one person, I wonder how many people who actually use waterless coolant have overheating issues because of it?, at the end of the day I use it and it works for me, I don't really care if it doesn't work for other people, I can find as many people who swear by the stuff as you can find who wouldn't touch it .

EDIT: surly the engine temp is governed by the thermostat? so the engine will run at a specified temp regardless of the coolants cooling ability?

[wimorrison]

The thermostat is only there to allow the engine to get to operating temperature quickly. When the engine is cold it is closed with the result that the coolant is retained within the block and does not circulate through the any radiators or heat exchangers. When the block is at working temperature the thermostat opens allowing the coolant to flow to radiators or heat exchangers where the heat in the coolant is lost before it is returned to the engine to remove more heat.

When a thermostat fails shut then an engine overheats were quickly, when it fails open the engine is very slow to warm up and fuel consumption so suffers.

[alfadave11]

Originally Posted by Claymore

waterless coolant has nothing to do with how hot an engine runs, one of the main benefits is the strain it takes off all the components in the cooling system. I can't see manufacturers putting coolant into their engines that would cost 4 times more than antifreeze.

you have taken what I said out of context ....some one mentioned engine runs cooler with this coolant in it
if you tune an engine for more power you generate heat ..its downside of the internal combustion engine ......wrap your turbo and downpipes and you will increase power and spool up response , . surely you can concur on that no doubt this is what you've done to your hill climb motor

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by Claymore

...I always had a overheating issue with normal coolant in my hillclimb car, haven't had a single problem since switching to waterless coolant, but I suppose I'm just one person, I wonder how many people who actually use waterless coolant have overheating issues because of it?...

You are experiencing the one benefit of this fluid.

It has a boiling point of 180c unlike water which boils at 100c, unless it is pressurised. Typically the pressure cap is between +5 and +10 psi taking the booing point up to around 120c.

When you place an engine under high stress,much as youndonwhen hill climbing, then for a water based system you must increase the pressure of the system to increase the boiling point of the coolant and prevent the overheating that you experience.

This is achieved by changing the radiator cap for one with a higher pressure rating - this is normally stamped or printed on the cap.

[Claymore]

I am truly humbled by all the expertise on this forum, I'll go back and sit in my little dark corner

[owyn]

Getting water to just boil actually increases the heat transfer into the water due to the turbulence it creates.
It's a process used in some nuclear power stations (bwr type) although that has other benefits as well.
It is a right rope though, increase the temperature anymore and you get a vapour layer across the heat transfer boundary and the heat transfer coefficient increases greatly.

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by Claymore

I am truly humbled by all the expertise on this forum, I'll go back and sit in my little dark corner

It is a car forum and we are discussing cars - I would hope that we have some expertise here

Though I have to admit whilst the theory is still valid for modern engines, the practicalities associated with modern maintenance makes the theory sometimes appear divorced from reality.