940 saloon on ebay - Page 4

taiwan740 · Jul 21st, 2020, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

A few weeks back i got stuck behind some clown at 40mph and watched the fuel gauge drop because it wouldn't change up into top.

soz

Laird Scooby · Jul 21st, 2020, 23:41

Hmmmmm, let me seee, what you're saying is the anti-EV group just happened to do the same research and then spread it over anti-social media? Or are you suggesting i posted the "propaganda" on the web for them to find?

Neither i hope as both carry a high probability of serendipity that just doesn't happen. Far more likely is that i came to a similar conclusion from visiting many sites and drawing a line somewhere in the middle of what all of them were saying - i do this to try and get as balanced a view point as possible.

I was referring to hydrogen, as previously stated, as an alternative ICE fuel. Not for energy storage, i've heard it can be done but given hydrogens volatile nature is allegedly dangerous.

The option of Tesla/other manufacturers and/or the electricity companies owning your battery, you getting the car cheap and participating in a V2G system would make it much more viable and less of a rip-off. Letting Tesla have the monopoly on that would be a bad move though.

The best economy i've ever had from my Rover was at a steady 80-90mph cruise over a 120 mile round trip stopping at the halfway point and with the obvious few miles each end of normal A roads (and some B and C roads for good measure. The previous day i'd done the same journey, in similar weather and traffic conditions at 70-80mph and returned 40mpg.
Normal use at 50-60mph it returns about 33mpg. Yes it is auto but it's more like a hydraulically shifted, electronically controlled manual box with no driver input other than selecting D, S, 2, N, R or P. As it is essentially a computer controlled and shifted manual box not only is it at least as economical as ( and sometimes better than) a manual but performs better too, despite the manufacturers "official" figures.

The Volvo on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. The original back axle was a 3.91:1 making it lower geared than many 7/940 models but still higher geared than the Rover. That said the Volvo has a "traditional" auto box with horrible things like planetary gears and brake bands, all of which reduce the efficiency.
However it doesn't actually begin to give economic driving until 4th (overdrive) is engaged and it won't engage below 45mph unless you come completely off the throttle.

There is also a very good reason why the Rover returned better economy at the higher speed. At that speed the engine is turning at about 4000rpm give or take and at 3800rpmthe inlet tracts shorten to give more top end power, making it more efficient aka economical.
I bet you haven't done that experiment i asked/suggested you try in another thread.

I can't remember if it was BBC or ITV i saw the aluminium battery bloke, from the way he explained it, it's an air dielectric aluminium capacitor. Not exactly the most efficient dielectric if i understood what he said correctly and it's a long time ago now so might have mixed something up in my mind.
Regardless of that, it's something we both definitely agree on, he didn't come across as a serious contender.

Laird Scooby · Jul 21st, 2020, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by taiwan740

soz

It wasn't you, not unless you drive some small blue hatchback with a Trilby hat and a short body underneath!

360beast · Jul 22nd, 2020, 07:23

Is yours a ZF box Dave? My 940 is an AW71 with lockup up but it doesn't kick in until 65mph so to get decent economy on a run I have to do at least 65mph.

Laird Scooby · Jul 22nd, 2020, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360beast

Is yours a ZF box Dave? My 940 is an AW71 with lockup up but it doesn't kick in until 65mph so to get decent economy on a run I have to do at least 65mph.

Mine's also an AW box Luke, AW70 if memory serves, not even an AW70L!

I suspect because mines the V6 i get more torque lower down than in the B230 but if i'm a little heavier-footed, it can take me up to 60-70mph to get overdrive to kick in.
I believe Volvo specifies quite high speeds for lock up to come in, according to page 56 of this pdf, lock up on the B230FK/T with AW71L comes in @ 98kmh and drops out @ 96kmh which is ~64 and 63mph respectively.

http://www.myvolvolibrary.info/Tech_...DataPocket.pdf

Doesn't help me much as although it claims to be the 7/900 Data Pocket book, it doesn't list the 760 i have!

In fairness i have seen one that does but my local Volvo parts guy won't part with it!

john.wigley · Jul 22nd, 2020, 10:19

That's interesting, 'L.S.'. I've never owned a 760, but all the automatic 2 and 7 series cars that I have owned have 'locked up' at 55 MPH. I have always believed this to be by design, as the Swedish equivalent to our NSL is 90 KPH (56 MPH). Even as long ago as the '80s, I could drive from Gothenburg to Uppsala in around six or seven hours on about nine gallons of fuel.

Traffic was (is?) much more predictable in Sweden, and it was possible to drive long distances at constant speed on a warm engine - optimum conditions for fuel economy. I was very pleasantly surprised when our 244 DL, which typically averaged low to mid twenties in the UK, first broke 30 MPG when driven under those conditions - something that our friends regarded as unexceptional with their near identical car!

There are so many factors that influence fuel consumption that comparisons between cars are largely academic unless conducted under laboratory conditions.

Regards, John.

Laird Scooby · Jul 22nd, 2020, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by john.wigley

That's interesting, 'L.S.'. I've never owned a 760, but all the automatic 2 and 7 series cars that I have owned have 'locked up' at 55 MPH. I have always believed this to be by design, as the Swedish equivalent to our NSL is 90 KPH (56 MPH). Even as long ago as the '80s, I could drive from Gothenburg to Uppsala in around six or seven hours on about nine gallons of fuel.

Traffic was (is?) much more predictable in Sweden, and it was possible to drive long distances at constant speed on a warm engine - optimum conditions for fuel economy. I was very pleasantly surprised when our 244 DL, which typically averaged low to mid twenties in the UK, first broke 30 MPG when driven under those conditions - something that our friends regarded as unexceptional with their near identical car!

There are so many factors that influence fuel consumption that comparisons between cars are largely academic unless conducted under laboratory conditions.

Regards, John.

My 760 doesn't have lock up John. As you rightly point out, constant speed driving on a hot engine is the most favourable condition for economy. The biggest factor effecting economy is driving style. I have proved over the years that comparisons between cars is valid with the same driver, especially having owned 2 (and sometimes 3) similar cars and achieved similar economy from them. When i say owned 2 and sometimes 3, i mean concurrently as well as consecutively.

360beast · Jul 22nd, 2020, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Mine's also an AW box Luke, AW70 if memory serves, not even an AW70L!

I suspect because mines the V6 i get more torque lower down than in the B230 but if i'm a little heavier-footed, it can take me up to 60-70mph to get overdrive to kick in.
I believe Volvo specifies quite high speeds for lock up to come in, according to page 56 of this pdf, lock up on the B230FK/T with AW71L comes in @ 98kmh and drops out @ 96kmh which is ~64 and 63mph respectively.

http://www.myvolvolibrary.info/Tech_...DataPocket.pdf

Doesn't help me much as although it claims to be the 7/900 Data Pocket book, it doesn't list the 760 i have!

In fairness i have seen one that does but my local Volvo parts guy won't part with it!

I don't know if I was clear then Dave, 4th kicks in at 30mph but lock up doesn't until 65 or 64 as you have found out for me

MiniNinjaRob · Jul 22nd, 2020, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Time will tell and when they're so over-run with batteries ready for recycling that the recycling plants can't manage, what then?

All batteries producers have to pay for the eventual recycling of what they produce when they make them. Then the recyclers claim that money when they provide evidence that they have been recycled. More batteries made, more money for recycling. Sometimes if the materials in the batteries are valuable they don’t really need that money as the profit from recovering those materials is pretty good in itself. This has long been the case for lead acid batteries which are stolen from some recyclers for their lead content.

Even if there is a bit of an overstock of batteries waiting to be recycled they have to be stored in a way which protects the environment - the regulations are pretty strict.

MiniNinjaRob - MCIWM Chartered Waste and Resource Manager

MiniNinjaRob · Jul 22nd, 2020, 13:00

I can’t wait until EV conversion kits are more readily available - I’d love one for my 940. Probably beyond my ability to fit though.

Jul 21st, 2020, 23:41	#32
Laird Scooby Premier Member Last Online: Today 00:00 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lakenheath	Hmmmmm, let me seee, what you're saying is the anti-EV group just happened to do the same research and then spread it over anti-social media? Or are you suggesting i posted the "propaganda" on the web for them to find? Neither i hope as both carry a high probability of serendipity that just doesn't happen. Far more likely is that i came to a similar conclusion from visiting many sites and drawing a line somewhere in the middle of what all of them were saying - i do this to try and get as balanced a view point as possible. I was referring to hydrogen, as previously stated, as an alternative ICE fuel. Not for energy storage, i've heard it can be done but given hydrogens volatile nature is allegedly dangerous. The option of Tesla/other manufacturers and/or the electricity companies owning your battery, you getting the car cheap and participating in a V2G system would make it much more viable and less of a rip-off. Letting Tesla have the monopoly on that would be a bad move though. The best economy i've ever had from my Rover was at a steady 80-90mph cruise over a 120 mile round trip stopping at the halfway point and with the obvious few miles each end of normal A roads (and some B and C roads for good measure. The previous day i'd done the same journey, in similar weather and traffic conditions at 70-80mph and returned 40mpg. Normal use at 50-60mph it returns about 33mpg. Yes it is auto but it's more like a hydraulically shifted, electronically controlled manual box with no driver input other than selecting D, S, 2, N, R or P. As it is essentially a computer controlled and shifted manual box not only is it at least as economical as ( and sometimes better than) a manual but performs better too, despite the manufacturers "official" figures. The Volvo on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. The original back axle was a 3.91:1 making it lower geared than many 7/940 models but still higher geared than the Rover. That said the Volvo has a "traditional" auto box with horrible things like planetary gears and brake bands, all of which reduce the efficiency. However it doesn't actually begin to give economic driving until 4th (overdrive) is engaged and it won't engage below 45mph unless you come completely off the throttle. There is also a very good reason why the Rover returned better economy at the higher speed. At that speed the engine is turning at about 4000rpm give or take and at 3800rpmthe inlet tracts shorten to give more top end power, making it more efficient aka economical. I bet you haven't done that experiment i asked/suggested you try in another thread. I can't remember if it was BBC or ITV i saw the aluminium battery bloke, from the way he explained it, it's an air dielectric aluminium capacitor. Not exactly the most efficient dielectric if i understood what he said correctly and it's a long time ago now so might have mixed something up in my mind. Regardless of that, it's something we both definitely agree on, he didn't come across as a serious contender. __________________ Cheers Dave Next Door to Top-Gun with a Honda CR-V & S Type Jag Volvo gone but not forgotten........

Jul 22nd, 2020, 10:19	#36
john.wigley VOC Member since 1986 Last Online: Today 06:56 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Leicestershire	That's interesting, 'L.S.'. I've never owned a 760, but all the automatic 2 and 7 series cars that I have owned have 'locked up' at 55 MPH. I have always believed this to be by design, as the Swedish equivalent to our NSL is 90 KPH (56 MPH). Even as long ago as the '80s, I could drive from Gothenburg to Uppsala in around six or seven hours on about nine gallons of fuel. Traffic was (is?) much more predictable in Sweden, and it was possible to drive long distances at constant speed on a warm engine - optimum conditions for fuel economy. I was very pleasantly surprised when our 244 DL, which typically averaged low to mid twenties in the UK, first broke 30 MPG when driven under those conditions - something that our friends regarded as unexceptional with their near identical car! There are so many factors that influence fuel consumption that comparisons between cars are largely academic unless conducted under laboratory conditions. Regards, John. __________________ Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana .....

Jul 22nd, 2020, 13:00	#40
MiniNinjaRob Master Member Last Online: Dec 2nd, 2022 12:14 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: West Yorkshire	I can’t wait until EV conversion kits are more readily available - I’d love one for my 940. Probably beyond my ability to fit though. __________________ The Millennium Volcon - 1997 940CD HPT Estate Millennium Volcon NOW FOR SALE HERE

Jul 22nd, 2020, 07:23	#34
360beast Go redblock or go home Last Online: Yesterday 16:34 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: UK	Is yours a ZF box Dave? My 940 is an AW71 with lockup up but it doesn't kick in until 65mph so to get decent economy on a run I have to do at least 65mph.

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