DIY Mapping?

[imac]

Originally Posted by RiPsTa33

Spot on imac, i like my 855 AWD and i dont want a T5. What i do want is to make my AWD faster without looking at cracked cylinders therefore i have bought a T5 engine to put into it. I will need a re-map and thought i might be able to do it myself with some help from the friendly people on this forum. After looking at that data from bobcat i can clearly see i am out of my depth on this one therefore i will have to look at a commercial tuner to do the work and Don seems to be winning the race at the minute. Not trying to start a war, but starting an arguement does not seem difficult after reading some of the other threads between tuners

Its a project I've always fancied doing myself actually. You can't beat the 'raw edge' to the 850 T5 which isn't found in the later cars, but one thing it did miss was an AWD option - not available until the V70 R AWD.

The 850 AWD (B5254T) uses the same gearbox as the T5 (B5234Tx) which is the M56H or AW50-42 so should mate right up physically, I think the exhaust downpipe may be different so you might need a downpipe and cat from the T5?

From what I can find, the engine management system should be the Motronic 4.3 system which is the same as the T5, although some seem to run the Jetronic LH3.2 system. Make sure you don't run the T5 engine on the 850 AWD map though, so get it mapped prior to running it in the engine or use a spare ECU from a T5 to get it running.

AFAIK no one has done this conversion before!

[insider]

Originally Posted by Wobbly Dave

I am saying nothing more and would like to leave it at that. Insider can berate me for not having read all of it - I tried to avoid the b8ll****.

If you think that was you being "berated" by me, then you need to start on the PMT pills

Originally Posted by Wobbly Dave

Always thought that engine swaps are a bit fraught with problems.

I assume you are referring to swapping one engine code for another code.

[RiPsTa33]

Okay now you have me thinking, i have a 96 850 AWD, the engine is from a 98 V70 T5. I cant use the 850 DP because it has a different turbo, i dont know if the V70 T5 DP will clear the transfer box so that is leaving me with a 98 V70R AWD DP? I have pictures of all three from the ferrita site but looks can be decieving.

855 AWD

V70 T5

V70R AWD


By looking at the pictures it would look as if the V70R AWD DP is the same as the 855 AWD, does anybody know if the 855 AWD turbo has the same flange as the v70 t5 turbo?

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by RiPsTa33

Okay now you have me thinking, i have a 96 850 AWD, the engine is from a 98 V70 T5. I cant use the 850 DP because it has a different turbo, i dont know if the V70 T5 DP will clear the transfer box so that is leaving me with a 98 V70R AWD DP? I have pictures of all three from the ferrita site but looks can be decieving.

855 AWD

V70 T5

V70R AWD



By looking at the pictures it would look as if the V70R AWD DP is the same as the 855 AWD, does anybody know if the 855 AWD turbo has the same flange as the v70 t5 turbo?

Mate the down pipe is the least of your problems IMHO, most specialists can knock you up one of those, having said that any Ferrita supplier should be able to help with your query; I believe most respected tuners sell them; KU, VT and SW come to mind in no particular order lol, give them all a ring if your serious about your project. Hope this helps

[RiPsTa33]

So what other problems do you think i may run into then engineer? I would rather know now than after i have started.

[RiPsTa33]

bobcat you said in another thread you have some old ecu,s lying around with the rica software on, will i not be able to use one of these in my project?

[foggyjames]

Originally Posted by bobcat

However, if you want to go that route just buy a simple mbc, boost guage and an a/f guage.

I take it you mean a wideband A/F gauge? Because a narrowband is worthless, other than as a pretty light show. I'd advise anyone with a played-with turbo car to run a wideband AFR meter as a safety precaution - especially if it's not an off-the-shelf package from a professional tuning house.

[sarcasm]This all sounds terribly difficult. Perhaps you should buy a V70R AWD, then get someone to remap it for you if you want more power?[/sarcasm]

Get a sense of adventure you lot! Our man here is obviously up for the challenge. The engine will, as far as I'm aware, bolt right in. Either swap downpipes (for the one from a V70 AWD?) so it fits the new turbo (later TD04 with a flat flange?), or put the original turbo on the new engine, and run the original downpipe (conical flanged TD04?). As long as the DP is for an AWD car, I believe compatibility will be a matter of matching DP to turbo flange (pattern and position).

Once the engine is in, it comes down to the messy business of how to correctly fuel and spark it. Running a factory system (whether stock or chipped) is usually neatest unless you've got plenty of money to spend, in which case a fully programmably aftermarket system gives you the greatest flexibility. If there are different versions of Motronic at work here, you'll need to check that you can either swap to T5 ECUs, or have the AWD ECU flashed to control the engine correctly when it's seeing (more?) manifold pressure.

-----

Stupid question, but is this 850 AWD already a turbo, albeit a light-pressure turbo? If that's the case, why not just up the boost (whether via an MBC/EBC, or a remap) without swapping engines? I'm sure the LPT will stand up to some more shove from the snail! If you get the bug, the turbo can undoubtedly be upgraded in due course, etc.

cheers

James

[RiPsTa33]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

Stupid question, but is this 850 AWD already a turbo, albeit a light-pressure turbo? If that's the case, why not just up the boost (whether via an MBC/EBC, or a remap) without swapping engines? I'm sure the LPT will stand up to some more shove from the snail! If you get the bug, the turbo can undoubtedly be upgraded in due course, etc.

cheers

James

Yes the 850 AWD is a LPT, standard is around 196bhp and i know BSR do a chip for it up to 236bhp which will be slightly over a standard T5, anymore and the 2.5 engine starts to crack cylinders with it being the same as the 2.3 just overbored meaning it has thinner cylinder walls. By putting the T5 engine in i will instantly have 225 and with the re-map which i will need to pay for with either engines for more power the T5 route looks like it is going to give me a hell of a lot more power to cost ratio. As for upgrading the turbo it would be pointless without changing the rods and pistone for T5 items to lower the compression ratio for the extra boost, which is why i intend to just use the T5 engine with the stronger cylinders/rods/pistons and larger turbo. I already have a 98 T5 engine and turbo with only 58000 miles on it that i have stripped down to rebuild.

[foggyjames]

Ah, I didn't realise the LPTs were 2.5s...yes, I can certainly see the point.

If you can drop the T5 lump in and get the LPT ECU flashed with T5 software, you're laughing for minimal outlay.

cheers

James

[RiPsTa33]

Ah yes but if i am going to get it re-mapped anyway i might aswell go the whole hog because i dont think the cost will be much more