Engine: 2.8 F/Inj B28E: - Crank Pulley Removal - Page 4

Bertoni1980 · Nov 6th, 2010, 20:11

I discovered today that me fuel line between the main pump and the fuel distributor (beyond the fuel filter) is completely empty. I disconnected the fuel line from the distributor. I tried to suck the fuel line and it gave me a feeling that there was just about zero vacuum in the fuel line as if the other end were open. I tried to blow air into it and there was no or very little resistance either. I am sure the fuel line is not broken. I started the engine about a year maybe two ago and it started up fine. The car has not been moved a bit at all. So there is no way the fuel line is broken.

I checked the in tank pump. It works. I unplugged the connector in the trunk that connects to the in tank pump and the gas level sender. I hooked up a 12 volt battery to the wire for the pump and the ground (chassis) I saw about 2 amps of current and heard the pump turning (surprisingly quiet but it was pumping). I believe the in tank pump works fine.

I can't be sure if the main pump works. I did verified that about 12 amps of current did flow through the #7 fuse (16 amp fuse). But I could not hear its buzzing noise when I cranked the engine. I could not find the fuel pump relay. But I think the relay is working.

The only symptom I can tell now is the fuel line is completely empty all the way into the gas tank. What I am going to do next is to inject fuel into the fuel line to fill it up completely. This is to prime the pump and the entire fuel line. I hope this will make the pump start to work. I have at least 5 gallons of gas in the tank now. I think the in tank pump could not prime itself although it pumps hard yet it can not prime the main pump either.

I think I know why my fuel line is completely empty now. I started to dismantle everything on the top of the engine about 3 months ago. I had the fuel lines opened. Then I waited for 3 months until I gathered enough courage to begin to dismantle the cylinder heads two weeks ago. The fuel line had dried up during the 3 months period of time. I should have plugged the connectors. What a mistake I made.

Paul240480 · Nov 7th, 2010, 12:26

I've understand that the system may need to be primed if it has run dry or has been 'drained'.

Your fuel pump relay is behind the glove box on RHD models & I think behind the dash on LHD (I'm assuming it was'nt moved on 260 models?)
There will be two relays, one round one square. Square is fuel pump relay (round is for bulb warning failure system)

Bertoni1980 · Nov 7th, 2010, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul240480

I've understand that the system may need to be primed if it has run dry or has been 'drained'.

Thank you very much, Paul for confirming this. I have some ideas to prime the main fuel pump. I believe this pump is probably completely empty now. So is the fuel line between the in tank pump and the main pump. This is probably why I couldn't get the fuel going. What I will do is to disconnect the fuel line between the in tank pump and the main pump. I will disconnect it from the in tank pump fitting. I can inject some gas into the fuel line from there to prime the main pump. The word "prime" here means to saturate the pump with fuel and also the fuel line before the pump. All electric fuel pumps need to have fuel inside (primed) in order to work. If they are empty the propellers inside will only push air which is not strong enough to create enough vacuum to suck fuel from the fuel tank. If my pump is primed with gas and if it is not defective it should push gas forward and create a vacuum on the fuel lind when power is applied to it. It will create a vacuum behind it. This vacuum should be able to suck gas out of the in tank pump as well as from the tank.

Well, what I don't understand is why the in tank pump is not able to feed gas to the main pump. It is submerged in the gas in the tank. And I know it spins when power is applied to it. When the fuel line is disconnected I will be able to see if there is gas in it. If it has gas it will pretty much tell me that the main pump is defective. If there is no gas in it then the in tank pump is probably not functioning. We call it gas but it really is gasoline or fuel in the states.

I can use a short piece of electric wire to short the terminals of fuse #5 and #7. This should activate the fuel pump relay (and the in tank pump) to engage, which should then activate the main pump. I should be able to hear the relay clicking and the main pump humming. If it does click then I can find it.

I have a feeling that my main pump is not working although I am having a hard time to understand how it became defective. It hasn't been used for years. It is raining this morning so I will have to wait until the rain stops and the rain dries up before I can look at it again.

Bertoni1980 · Nov 7th, 2010, 21:32

I may have a fuel pump relay problem. I used a jumper wire to short the terminals between #5 and #7 on the fuse panel. It is supposed to supply a 12 volt to activate the fuel pump relay. But I heard no clicking, no activation sound from the relay. I tried it several times there was absolutely no sound. This is not right.

I double checked the schematic. The terminal #5 is energized to turm on the fuel pump relay when the ignition key is turned to crank the engine. I verified ti that it was indeed energized when I turned the key, or if I short terminal #5 to #7. The #7 is constantly energized (connected to the battery). But there is no sound of a relay clicking. This is probably why I have not heard my pump making any buzzing noise so far.

I need to find my fuel pump relay now. I checked everything under the dash above the felt cover. My 262C is a LHD model (driver on the left hand side). I can't find it.

Paul240480 · Nov 8th, 2010, 09:30

Got this snippet from Matthews Volvo Site, may be of use?

1991 volvo 245 GL wagon will not star
my 1991 volvo 245 GL wagon will not start. I have spark. When i turn the ignition on before cranking it, i don't hear a buzzing from the fuel pump.

here is what i did so far:
1. sprayed starter fluid and it started for a second and stalled.

2. I disconnected the fuel pressure regualtor and jumped out fuse 4 and 6 (bypassing fuel pump relay). Here is where I got a strong flow of fuel coming out of the fuel rail. (I jumped out the fuel pump relay 30 to 87/2 under the kickspace as well and got same results).

Hope this helps, looks like your relay is under the 'kick panel' below your dash in steering well? At least with this info you may be able to by-pass the relay to confirm it is at fault.

They are readily availible in UK from maindealers at around £60 or the likes of eurocarparts or GSF for around £20. I've got a GSF one in mine & it's been okay for the last 5 or so years

Bertoni1980 · Nov 8th, 2010, 19:05

Thank you again for the tech tip, Paul. I really appreciate it.

I did more testing and have come to a conclusion that it is most likely my main fuel pump is seized. I did several tests this morning. First I applied a 12 volt DC to the leads of the in tank fuel pump. I also hooked up a transparent hose to the pump outlet (fuel line to the main pump disconnected). I could see the pump working and pushed fuel almost 1 foot hight above the gas tank. I also verified that when I cranked the engine the tank pump did receive a 12 volt DC from the fuel pump relay. Basically this verified that the fuel pump relay was working and the tank pump was good too. The main pump and the tank pump are powered together by the fuel pump relay according to the schematic. Unless the wires to the main pump are broken if the tank pump gets power the main pump should get it too.

I filled the fuel line (from the tank pump to the main pump with gas util it was full. I reconnected the fuel line then tried to crank again. I had the fuel line out of the fuel filter at the engine compartment disconnected. When I cranked I saw no gas coming out of the fuel line still. The main pump had power from the relay and it was primed with gas but there was no fuel coming out of it still. I am afraid my main pump is dead.

I managed to find my spare pump that I pulled from a junk yard many years ago. It has a fuel accumulator with it. I hooked it up to a 12 volt DC battery. It did not buzz, nothing, zero, dead? I am frustrated. I don't remember how much I paid for it. It is a dead pump. I have to believe a fuel pump may become seized if unused for a long time. Now I will have to pull mine from the car and check it out of the car. I may be looking for a $200 pump soon.

MazakMan · Nov 9th, 2010, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertoni1980

Thank you again for the tech tip, Paul. I really appreciate it.

I did more testing and have come to a conclusion that it is most likely my main fuel pump is seized. I did several tests this morning. First I applied a 12 volt DC to the leads of the in tank fuel pump. I also hooked up a transparent hose to the pump outlet (fuel line to the main pump disconnected). I could see the pump working and pushed fuel almost 1 foot hight above the gas tank. I also verified that when I cranked the engine the tank pump did receive a 12 volt DC from the fuel pump relay. Basically this verified that the fuel pump relay was working and the tank pump was good too. The main pump and the tank pump are powered together by the fuel pump relay according to the schematic. Unless the wires to the main pump are broken if the tank pump gets power the main pump should get it too.

I filled the fuel line (from the tank pump to the main pump with gas util it was full. I reconnected the fuel line then tried to crank again. I had the fuel line out of the fuel filter at the engine compartment disconnected. When I cranked I saw no gas coming out of the fuel line still. The main pump had power from the relay and it was primed with gas but there was no fuel coming out of it still. I am afraid my main pump is dead.

I managed to find my spare pump that I pulled from a junk yard many years ago. It has a fuel accumulator with it. I hooked it up to a 12 volt DC battery. It did not buzz, nothing, zero, dead? I am frustrated. I don't remember how much I paid for it. It is a dead pump. I have to believe a fuel pump may become seized if unused for a long time. Now I will have to pull mine from the car and check it out of the car. I may be looking for a $200 pump soon.

Try giving the pump(s) a whack with a rubber mallet or similar whilst applying 12V. This often gets them going again if they've got stuck.

Isaac

Bertoni1980 · Nov 10th, 2010, 03:57

Thank you for the suggestion. It's exactly what I need now. I have removed the main pump from the car. I was able to confirm that it did get power but it did not turn. The main pump is indeed seized. I will give it a try. In the worst case it would be beating a dead horse. I will fill the pumps with WD40 and let them sit for at least a day then I will give them some good shocks and see if they can be freed. I may even try to shoot them with more than 12 volt of DC. I have two 12 volt batteries.

MazakMan · Nov 10th, 2010, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertoni1980

Thank you for the suggestion. It's exactly what I need now. I have removed the main pump from the car. I was able to confirm that it did get power but it did not turn. The main pump is indeed seized. I will give it a try. In the worst case it would be beating a dead horse. I will fill the pumps with WD40 and let them sit for at least a day then I will give them some good shocks and see if they can be freed. I may even try to shoot them with more than 12 volt of DC. I have two 12 volt batteries.

An ultrasonic tank would be the best option if you have access to one. Another trick is to put a blunt rod in a hammer action drill and "drill" into the casing somewhere (with the pump ideally submerged in meths or similar and with 12V applied) the vibration is quite good at shaking things loose again.

It's all worth a go.

Isaac

matbat · Nov 10th, 2010, 18:56

Sometime the little hose in the fuel-tank can perish and suck in air, have you checked that?

I had this on a 760 and it took ages to find the problem. I was convinced my main pump had gone

It's the hose that connects to the lift pump actually inside the fuel tank.

Nov 7th, 2010, 12:26	#32
Paul240480 Ovlovnut Last Online: Feb 25th, 2024 08:58 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nivillac View Photos By: Paul240480	I've understand that the system may need to be primed if it has run dry or has been 'drained'. Your fuel pump relay is behind the glove box on RHD models & I think behind the dash on LHD (I'm assuming it was'nt moved on 260 models?) There will be two relays, one round one square. Square is fuel pump relay (round is for bulb warning failure system) __________________ 2004 V70 2.4SE Auto 'The Welshmobile’ 2002 Laika Ecovip 400i ( Motorhome on an Iveco 2.8TD) http://www.gitessouthbrittany.com/ http://moncopainmonchien.jimdo.com/

Nov 8th, 2010, 09:30	#35
Paul240480 Ovlovnut Last Online: Feb 25th, 2024 08:58 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nivillac View Photos By: Paul240480	Got this snippet from Matthews Volvo Site, may be of use? 1991 volvo 245 GL wagon will not star my 1991 volvo 245 GL wagon will not start. I have spark. When i turn the ignition on before cranking it, i don't hear a buzzing from the fuel pump. here is what i did so far: 1. sprayed starter fluid and it started for a second and stalled. 2. I disconnected the fuel pressure regualtor and jumped out fuse 4 and 6 (bypassing fuel pump relay). Here is where I got a strong flow of fuel coming out of the fuel rail. (I jumped out the fuel pump relay 30 to 87/2 under the kickspace as well and got same results). Hope this helps, looks like your relay is under the 'kick panel' below your dash in steering well? At least with this info you may be able to by-pass the relay to confirm it is at fault. They are readily availible in UK from maindealers at around £60 or the likes of eurocarparts or GSF for around £20. I've got a GSF one in mine & it's been okay for the last 5 or so years __________________ 2004 V70 2.4SE Auto 'The Welshmobile’ 2002 Laika Ecovip 400i ( Motorhome on an Iveco 2.8TD) http://www.gitessouthbrittany.com/ http://moncopainmonchien.jimdo.com/

Nov 10th, 2010, 18:56	#40
matbat Member Last Online: Nov 3rd, 2020 15:28 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chichester	Sometime the little hose in the fuel-tank can perish and suck in air, have you checked that? I had this on a 760 and it took ages to find the problem. I was convinced my main pump had gone It's the hose that connects to the lift pump actually inside the fuel tank. __________________ www.securamatic.co.uk Last edited by matbat; Nov 10th, 2010 at 18:58.

Nov 6th, 2010, 20:11	#31
Bertoni1980 Junior Member Last Online: Mar 14th, 2011 15:22 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: San Jose	I discovered today that me fuel line between the main pump and the fuel distributor (beyond the fuel filter) is completely empty. I disconnected the fuel line from the distributor. I tried to suck the fuel line and it gave me a feeling that there was just about zero vacuum in the fuel line as if the other end were open. I tried to blow air into it and there was no or very little resistance either. I am sure the fuel line is not broken. I started the engine about a year maybe two ago and it started up fine. The car has not been moved a bit at all. So there is no way the fuel line is broken. I checked the in tank pump. It works. I unplugged the connector in the trunk that connects to the in tank pump and the gas level sender. I hooked up a 12 volt battery to the wire for the pump and the ground (chassis) I saw about 2 amps of current and heard the pump turning (surprisingly quiet but it was pumping). I believe the in tank pump works fine. I can't be sure if the main pump works. I did verified that about 12 amps of current did flow through the #7 fuse (16 amp fuse). But I could not hear its buzzing noise when I cranked the engine. I could not find the fuel pump relay. But I think the relay is working. The only symptom I can tell now is the fuel line is completely empty all the way into the gas tank. What I am going to do next is to inject fuel into the fuel line to fill it up completely. This is to prime the pump and the entire fuel line. I hope this will make the pump start to work. I have at least 5 gallons of gas in the tank now. I think the in tank pump could not prime itself although it pumps hard yet it can not prime the main pump either. I think I know why my fuel line is completely empty now. I started to dismantle everything on the top of the engine about 3 months ago. I had the fuel lines opened. Then I waited for 3 months until I gathered enough courage to begin to dismantle the cylinder heads two weeks ago. The fuel line had dried up during the 3 months period of time. I should have plugged the connectors. What a mistake I made.

Nov 7th, 2010, 21:32	#34
Bertoni1980 Junior Member Last Online: Mar 14th, 2011 15:22 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: San Jose	I may have a fuel pump relay problem. I used a jumper wire to short the terminals between #5 and #7 on the fuse panel. It is supposed to supply a 12 volt to activate the fuel pump relay. But I heard no clicking, no activation sound from the relay. I tried it several times there was absolutely no sound. This is not right. I double checked the schematic. The terminal #5 is energized to turm on the fuel pump relay when the ignition key is turned to crank the engine. I verified ti that it was indeed energized when I turned the key, or if I short terminal #5 to #7. The #7 is constantly energized (connected to the battery). But there is no sound of a relay clicking. This is probably why I have not heard my pump making any buzzing noise so far. I need to find my fuel pump relay now. I checked everything under the dash above the felt cover. My 262C is a LHD model (driver on the left hand side). I can't find it.

Nov 8th, 2010, 19:05	#36
Bertoni1980 Junior Member Last Online: Mar 14th, 2011 15:22 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: San Jose	Thank you again for the tech tip, Paul. I really appreciate it. I did more testing and have come to a conclusion that it is most likely my main fuel pump is seized. I did several tests this morning. First I applied a 12 volt DC to the leads of the in tank fuel pump. I also hooked up a transparent hose to the pump outlet (fuel line to the main pump disconnected). I could see the pump working and pushed fuel almost 1 foot hight above the gas tank. I also verified that when I cranked the engine the tank pump did receive a 12 volt DC from the fuel pump relay. Basically this verified that the fuel pump relay was working and the tank pump was good too. The main pump and the tank pump are powered together by the fuel pump relay according to the schematic. Unless the wires to the main pump are broken if the tank pump gets power the main pump should get it too. I filled the fuel line (from the tank pump to the main pump with gas util it was full. I reconnected the fuel line then tried to crank again. I had the fuel line out of the fuel filter at the engine compartment disconnected. When I cranked I saw no gas coming out of the fuel line still. The main pump had power from the relay and it was primed with gas but there was no fuel coming out of it still. I am afraid my main pump is dead. I managed to find my spare pump that I pulled from a junk yard many years ago. It has a fuel accumulator with it. I hooked it up to a 12 volt DC battery. It did not buzz, nothing, zero, dead? I am frustrated. I don't remember how much I paid for it. It is a dead pump. I have to believe a fuel pump may become seized if unused for a long time. Now I will have to pull mine from the car and check it out of the car. I may be looking for a $200 pump soon.

Nov 10th, 2010, 03:57	#38
Bertoni1980 Junior Member Last Online: Mar 14th, 2011 15:22 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: San Jose	Thank you for the suggestion. It's exactly what I need now. I have removed the main pump from the car. I was able to confirm that it did get power but it did not turn. The main pump is indeed seized. I will give it a try. In the worst case it would be beating a dead horse. I will fill the pumps with WD40 and let them sit for at least a day then I will give them some good shocks and see if they can be freed. I may even try to shoot them with more than 12 volt of DC. I have two 12 volt batteries.

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