Geartronic Jolt engaging D or R

[jasons6930]

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

I strongly disagree respectfully.

Could you elaborate?

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by jasons6930

Hi guys,

Well after a lot of investigating, and a software update at the dealer it has basically diagnosed main shaft oil seals and it’s booked in with Volvo to be done at a very ‘reasonable’ price next week.

And yes, as it turns out, the wrong oil was also used in the gearbox and it should indeed have had the newer gen2 oil which is the AW1. All this info is in the drivers manual.

In all honesty, when you have problems with these boxes, try and build a relationship with your main dealer as at the end of the day, they really are the ones that know what the score is with these boxes!

Hmmmm..... I would disagree as well.

Firstly, whilst the spec of oil was changed from JWS3309 to AW-1 somewhere around MY2012, using the old spec oil would not have damaged or caused the issues you've had in any way shape or form. The newer spec fluid is slightly thinner for economy reasons, if you have leaking shaft seals the it might have run better with 3309 in it...

Secondly, the dealers generally know very little about the gearboxes, unless they are fortunate to have a mature mechanic in the team who's worked with the boxes before. The diagnosis these days is mostly flow chart driven and apart from a very few specific issues (yours maybe one) they will not open up the boxes at all - they will simply replace with new.

Unless the car is still under a dealer/Selekt warranty - my strong suggestion would be best to go to a transmission specialist. To properly identify an issue with the TF80 you need an experience specialist to listen to it and feel it - it can't be reliably diagnosed on the bench like a manual gearbox as it needs fluid at pressure and electronics to operate.

[jasons6930]

When it went in for other work after I also discovered the incorrect oil was used, they did the diagnosis and Vida came back with replacement seals repair which he did show me.

He was very clued up on these transmissions and In all fairness, they did offer to replace the oil with the correct type but there was doubt as to how successful that would be and if it didn’t sort the problem, I would be in for a fluid change cost on top of the repair which would also include fresh oil.

Just to add, if the gearbox is playing up with the thicker fluid, then with the correct fluid and seals failing it would probably function a lot worse.

It does seem to be worse the hotter it gets and the thinner the oil gets.


I only found out by luck when I was searching for similar issues on a thread on a random car forum where one guy had managed to get some info from Volvo about the gen2 boxes and what was changed from the gen1 and the reasons for the newer type fluid.

I’ll see if I can find it again

Thanks for all the input guys.

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

Hmmmm..... I would disagree as well.

Firstly, whilst the spec of oil was changed from JWS3309 to AW-1 somewhere around MY2012, using the old spec oil would not have damaged or caused the issues you've had in any way shape or form. The newer spec fluid is slightly thinner for economy reasons, if you have leaking shaft seals the it might have run better with 3309 in it...

Secondly, the dealers generally know very little about the gearboxes, unless they are fortunate to have a mature mechanic in the team who's worked with the boxes before. The diagnosis these days is mostly flow chart driven and apart from a very few specific issues (yours maybe one) they will not open up the boxes at all - they will simply replace with new.

Unless the car is still under a dealer/Selekt warranty - my strong suggestion would be best to go to a transmission specialist.

Hope you well! I know we disagree on some aspects of this subject (but agree on most points). Given that there was a period when the Gen 1 TF-80SC was indeed specified with JWS3309, and that the Gen 2 was specified with AW1 (and some obscure BOT spec for an intermediate time, it would indeed appear that the use of JWS3309 is not likely to cause failure, especially at this sort of time duration.

That said, Aisin Warner themselves detail AW1 as backward compatible but JWS3309 as incompatible forward. Much is written regarding the specifics but the AW1 seems to be less viscous for the benifits of fuel economy and critically to ensure that we get the ‘sealed for life’ which in reality is a myth supported heavily by the dealerships that was never true (Volvo don’t say sealed for life).

That said JWS3309 is firstly viscous, and more importantly it is very clearly stated that JWS3309 should never be mixed with AW1.

I don’t know how the OP had the box oil changed? If the fluid was actually pumped to waste and new fluid filled then it would seem less likely to have these issues, but far from impossible (I know you don’t agree with that totally).

If however we are talking of sump drains and refills then to me it is entirely possible to have AW1 and 3309 mixing. Both (limits of my knowledge here) fully synthetic however 3309 far more Dexron 3 in make up with AW1 world standard DX4.

I am not in receipt of the facts or knowledge to conclude anything however there are many questions here?

Was AW1 pumped to waste and replaced with 3309? If so we’re adaptations reset etc and why do you have this issue?
Was sump dump used in which case I think this outcome was always the result expected.

I hope this is all resolved swiftly and cheaply however be aware that a quick comment from Volvo along the lines of ‘your valve block is slightly worn’ etc and you may very well be paying out for replacement of components.

I am not a mechanic, I simply have an interest here and could be wrong.

[jasons6930]

Hi again,

I don;t know how the change was done either, as i booked it in for a flush (was charged for 12ish litres?) and let them do whatever was needed to achieve this.

Dropped it off first thing, then picked it up early afternoon.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

Hope you well! I know we disagree on some aspects of this subject (but agree on most points). Given that there was a period when the Gen 1 TF-80SC was indeed specified with JWS3309, and that the Gen 2 was specified with AW1 (and some obscure BOT spec for an intermediate time, it would indeed appear that the use of JWS3309 is not likely to cause failure, especially at this sort of time duration.

That said, Aisin Warner themselves detail AW1 as backward compatible but JWS3309 as incompatible forward. Much is written regarding the specifics but the AW1 seems to be less viscous for the benifits of fuel economy and critically to ensure that we get the ‘sealed for life’ which in reality is a myth supported heavily by the dealerships that was never true (Volvo don’t say sealed for life).

That said JWS3309 is firstly viscous, and more importantly it is very clearly stated that JWS3309 should never be mixed with AW1.

I don’t know how the OP had the box oil changed? If the fluid was actually pumped to waste and new fluid filled then it would seem less likely to have these issues, but far from impossible (I know you don’t agree with that totally).

If however we are talking of sump drains and refills then to me it is entirely possible to have AW1 and 3309 mixing. Both (limits of my knowledge here) fully synthetic however 3309 far more Dexron 3 in make up with AW1 world standard DX4.

I am not in receipt of the facts or knowledge to conclude anything however there are many questions here?

Was AW1 pumped to waste and replaced with 3309? If so we’re adaptations reset etc and why do you have this issue?
Was sump dump used in which case I think this outcome was always the result expected.

I hope this is all resolved swiftly and cheaply however be aware that a quick comment from Volvo along the lines of ‘your valve block is slightly worn’ etc and you may very well be paying out for replacement of components.

I am not a mechanic, I simply have an interest here and could be wrong.

There’s no argument from me against the theory that you really should not mix 3309 and AW-1 on a Gen2 TF80, but my view would be that doing so would not physically damage a previously healthy box.

These boxes are great when they’re good but an absolute nightmare when they’re playing up. It’s easy to arrive at the conclusion that the valve body or seals are the fault but both are circa £1,500+ repairs and not usually guaranteed to fix the issue. Personally I would just rather swap the box for a reconditioned or second hand one (with warranty….)

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

What model and year of car do you have?

2011 V70 D3 SE Lux (163PS)

The manual says to use AW1 except for 2.5FT which I assume is an engine(?).

So much has been said since yesterday! I'll have a thorough read later and see if I can chip in. Right now I have to make breakfast...

auto_oil.jpg

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

Firstly i understand Volvo DO currently list the 2012 on as JWS3309. This is incorrect and was not in earlier versions of their dealer software. I believe Volvo are currently correcting this. Secondly all and every supplier should know that Generation 2 TF-80SC uses AW1 or JWS3324. Thirdly you can use AW1 in gen 1 as it’s backward compatible.

From reading many posts I'm aware there is confusion on the year/oil, even from Volvo!

I'm under the impression the VIN is king, so if a parts catalogue says AW1 oil then that's what it is?

Also the AutoBox has a badge with numbers and stuff (under the battery) which may be the definitive info. I'll take a picture of it on the weekend and lets see if it's useful.

[passenger]

Originally Posted by jasons6930

Hi guys,

Well after a lot of investigating, and a software update at the dealer it has basically diagnosed main shaft oil seals and it’s booked in with Volvo to be done at a very ‘reasonable’ price next week.

And yes, as it turns out, the wrong oil was also used in the gearbox and it should indeed have had the newer gen2 oil which is the AW1. All this info is in the drivers manual.

In all honesty, when you have problems with these boxes, try and build a relationship with your main dealer as at the end of the day, they really are the ones that know what the score is with these boxes!

So it's


31256774 1L

Or

31256775 4L for you car? Nowadays you need to research for your mech what to use. Mostly they dont have a clue

[jasons6930]

Originally Posted by passenger

So it's


31256774 1L

Or

31256775 4L for you car? Nowadays you need to research for your mech what to use. Mostly they dont have a clue

Yes, this is what is listed on the quote for repair, and what is listed in the owners manual (AW-1).