Amazon: Wheels on ebay

[940_Turbo]

There were multiple wide rims available back in the day. There are two Volvo part numbers, 2 Kronprinz as well as a version made by Lemmerz. As far as I know the 613014 was made by the Dunlop factory in the UK. That was closed several years ago after being purchased by an Italian group.

Volvo 613014

Is a rim with a smooth bed on the rim. The smooth rims are often referred to as H1 rims by aficionados in Holland and Germany. This rim is a 15” x 5.5J width with an ET of 10mm ergo it increases the width of the track by 30mm.

Kronprinz 6134B


Again this is a smooth bed rim. 15” x5.5J with an ET of 5mm, ergo it increases the width of the track by 40mm.

Volvo 613017


This is identical to the Kronprinz 6136B rim, but it was given a Volvo part number.

15” x 5.5J with an ET of 15mm, hence the track is increased by 20mm.

Kronprinz 6136B

Once again this is a smooth bed rim

15” x 5.5J with an ET of 15mm, hence the track is increased by 20mm.


Lemmerz 1538

The Lemmerz is often referred to as an H2 rim, it isn’t a smooth bed rim, it has a pressed radial indentation.

Naturally another 15” x 5.5J this time with an ET of 15mm increasing track by 20mm

Originally Posted by ClassicVolvoShop

Well, that's precisely what I was after - see I really mean not to ruin dreams and hopes - BUT!..

670429 is the Volvopartno. for the 1965-1970 standard slotted 4.0" steel wheels - so this means, that your wheels are re-welded/fixed with a rim from another 15" wheel.

The 3/66 is the production date.. ((You should be able to see a horisontal diamond-logo too ?.. ))

Does yours have weld-seemens on the backside? (Shouldn't have..)

[ClassicVolvoShop]

Hi 940-Turbo,

First: You are right that there's even another player in there, Lemmerz - and you are right that there's actually 2 different styles - "smooth bed" and "radial indentation" - style. But there was no reason to confuse more than needed..

The smooth bed - is the first generation wheels - the radial indentation is a common "new thing" in late 1960'ies/early 1970'ies - and is a safety thing in the wheel - If you get an "exploding" flat tyre - the tyre wont roll off the rim on a "radial indentation'ed" wheel.

You mention that some of these wheels where given Volvo part numbers - that is not true! Volvo allready in July 1969 wrote a letter to the Swedish "Bilinspektion" (car-inspection), that Volvo could NOT allow use of these (KPZ) 5.5" wheels - and it has been a battle of belief ever since! It's a myth that is so difficult to get rid of - and it keeps comming up.

There is no Volvo 5.5" wheels for the PV/120/1800 series (1800E yes, but different stud-pattern).
Volvo has always disapproved them!

I would like if you could refer to literature on those 613014 and 613017 numbers, as they are obviously not i correspondance with Volvo's part number series for the 120/1800/140 or PV. They aren't either in correspondance with Competion or R-Sport part numbers either - or in the number series for accessories.... I don't have acces to master catalog here - but 613xxx doesn't sound right at all.

What's your source?

[940_Turbo]

I have in the past seen these wheels, I don't have a a Volvo part book about and I've never seriously tried to look those wheels up in the Volvo parts books as my understanding has always been that the last ones were sold in the early 80's.

However there is a 1966 Volvo North America document that specifically refers to 5.5J wheels being acceptable when race or rally preparing 120, PV or 1800 and states "these are available on special order from your Volvo dealer" or alternatively recommends the use of "15" Chrysler product wheels".

TUV/Volvo homologation documentation has in the past been posted on the German Volvoniacs forum, referring to KPZ, Lemmerz and 613014.

http://volvoniacs.oldtimer-info.de/bilder/948537_2.PDF

http://volvoniacs.oldtimer-info.de/bilder/948537_1.PDF

The German TUV documents post date "your" 1969 document.

I don't have a particular ax to grind here, other than as an occasional customer of both Brookhouse and VP. I really see no good reason to cast aspersions about this product though. I've not seen the wheels myself, though I'll probably order some just for fun.

Originally Posted by ClassicVolvoShop

Hi 940-Turbo,

First: You are right that there's even another player in there, Lemmerz - and you are right that there's actually 2 different styles - "smooth bed" and "radial indentation" - style. But there was no reason to confuse more than needed..

The smooth bed - is the first generation wheels - the radial indentation is a common "new thing" in late 1960'ies/early 1970'ies - and is a safety thing in the wheel - If you get an "exploding" flat tyre - the tyre wont roll off the rim on a "radial indentation'ed" wheel.

You mention that some of these wheels where given Volvo part numbers - that is not true! Volvo allready in July 1969 wrote a letter to the Swedish "Bilinspektion" (car-inspection), that Volvo could NOT allow use of these (KPZ) 5.5" wheels - and it has been a battle of belief ever since! It's a myth that is so difficult to get rid of - and it keeps comming up.

There is no Volvo 5.5" wheels for the PV/120/1800 series (1800E yes, but different stud-pattern).
Volvo has always disapproved them!

I would like if you could refer to literature on those 613014 and 613017 numbers, as they are obviously not i correspondance with Volvo's part number series for the 120/1800/140 or PV. They aren't either in correspondance with Competion or R-Sport part numbers either - or in the number series for accessories.... I don't have acces to master catalog here - but 613xxx doesn't sound right at all.

What's your source?

[tdz840]

Originally Posted by 940_Turbo

1
I really see no good reason to cast aspersions about this product though.

Thats a very good point raised; we need to be V careful when raising unfounded issues when we havent seen the product in the 'flesh'. This forum has already been down that road and was shut for a considerable time.
In general suppliers are out to make a living but not at the cost of future business. I would be very surprised if these two (excellent) suppliers are selling sub standard parts. Without any actual evidence we MUST give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they are fit for purpose.
Russ

[amazon69]

So you mean mine aren't made of titanium?

Damn.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

The myth just wont die...

I was typing a rather long answer/respons and when hitting send, the forum was under update and my post was lost.. Yeah, go ahead and laugh..

- so I'll just try sum up here, beause in reality the myth about 5.5" wheels just wont die - it has lived for more than 30 years.

The 5.5" wheel Volvo North America refered to in a Competetion programme, (dating 1967, where the KPZ wheel first saw light in 1969) was NOT an original Volvo wheel - and was given a local dealer accessorie number, 75005.

The Volvo Deutschland papers specifically mentions wheel offset etc. - which is the key core here, because the KPZ 5.5" wheels widens the wheel track beyond what Volvo AB has approved. (So the paper just accounts for 5.5" wheels, NOT the "wrong" offset KPZ wheels - on which the REPRO wheels are molded from).

So for any further discussion - let's stick with facts and correct details etc. - NOT just find an argument that suits the taste - Let's agree on that first - let's relate to correct interpretation of sources. I mean no offense, but yes, you can find 1000 articles on the internet with people who has driven the KPZ wheels for 15 years without any problems - that's NOT THE CORE ISSUE HERE!

The manufacturer of these REPRO wheels are known to care very little about quality and I question if the STEEL quality (for one thing) is good enough for the forces a 5.5" wheel modelled from the KPZ 5.5" is exposed to.

You do the calculation/math:
If 8 of you, buy 4 of these REPRO wheels of me for the eBay auction STARTING PRICE and picks them up at Guthenburg Habour, I'll be able to make apr. DKK 3800 for doing NOTHING other than take your money and pay the manufacturer. (Yeap, at 8 sets and above, shipping is free to Sweden). So what does this tells you in regards of production costs (=quality)?
In other words: Gross price (in GBP) for 8x4 wheels matches the year Katherine Howard, fifth Queen of Henry VIII was born - and that's with free delivery from Denmark to Sweden.

VP has bought in 1000 of these.. CVI has bought some sets.. 2 danish suppliers have them on the shelfes now.. Obviously some British retailers have bought some sets.. The German and Dutch suppliers/vendors have for sure bought their share..
So my 2nd. prediction that wont sound nice in many ears, is that the market is completely flodded!

I wont continue arguing, it serves no purpose - it's like arguing religion - I have now shared what I have of inside knowledge, so it's completely up to you to do your own judgement: If you fancy the look (YES they look good) that much, that you are willing to pay that much for a set of steel wheels - then go ahead! Make your dream come true right here and now! If you have allready waited/looked out for that look for a year or two.. I say hold on, let's see what the explorers will return..

[amaz'in]

Hi CVS,

You say just wait another year or two, how many years do we wait for quality steel wheels?..and then if only one set turns up on ebay and 10 of us want a set?

It's already pushing us into Mini-Lite cost territory...for a pressed steel wheel! and clearly i'm not the only one here with an aversion to the mini-Lite look.

I would like to think you are warning us for good reason, and value your knowledge and experience in these matters.

Perhaps if a bunch of us went to Banded wheels we could get a great price, There was an article on their work in a recent magazine, the VW Boy's have been using them for yonks...and their work is 'very' impressive indeed....but pricey, as good work often is I suppose.

Supply and demand of course, it would seem Volvo's concern 'may' have been more to do with offset's than actual width, i'm not after enourmously wide wheels which will put my half shafts and bushes and joints under undue stress, just some wheels which have a smidge more width for perhaps a 185 tyre.

The Amazon is such a muscualr looking car, but with the skinny wheels it's like having Arnie on Kate moss's legs.

J

[ClassicVolvoShop]

amaz'in,

I agree on the Mini Lite - I have never liked them either! (-is the correct word, it was 'too') - the orignal KPZ's are nice and does make the Amazon look a bit more firm an predator on the asfalt - and makes the car handle nice (but that does fresh bushings and shocks do too..)

I understand the concern/conflict about wanting to have a set now they are availble "everywhere" - but it's not a factor of availability - the factor to have in mind is the QUALITY of the available (REPRO) ones.

Originally Posted by amaz'in

...I would like to think you are warning us for good reason..

- please stay on that track! If it was only about money - I would have begun taking orders for these wheels - and deliver them at a UK Volvo meeting this summer! Profit is good!

[Alf ista]

Here is an interesting style Ford wheel with same pcd. Just a thought....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/40739...Q5fAccessories

[amaz'in]

Hi Alf,

Not bad...6.5" could be a smidge boy racer for me..I wonder if most of the American rims are that kind of width?

J