850 tdi POWER!!!!!! - Page 6

brickman · Jun 12th, 2014, 15:56

Finally fitted a proper boost gauge. Reaches about 14-16psi very smoothly with no obvious spiking or over boost surge (before the bcs can act). Amazed by how much driving about town it doesn't appear to spool at all, or at least so low that it can't read it

thetroublemaker · Jun 12th, 2014, 22:13

Well theres no argument there about seeing the gauge there lol

I would like to say a massive thankyou to martin, i went over to his on saturday and we had a play with the car, seems my non blanked EGR was stuck partially open and was basically acting as a massive waste gate, so there was no pressure being built up.

We are now running it with the BCS bypassed and at 20psi held pressure (21 psi occasionally shown) 18 in lower gears, 20 in 3rd and 4th when the convertor locks up and the Synergy VP turned to max.

I get a bit of light grey on hard acceleration, not massive amounts by any means, and the car feels very fast now and certainly punches above its weight. The fact my car is a standard 2.5d with the 15' rims on makes it all the more comedy when it goes zooming off at the lights or performing an overtake!

Also brickman, the reason for no surging as follows:

On a petrol more boost = more fuelling at the same time so therefore more power.

On a diesel more boost only = more fuelling when you have increased it to suit. The engine takes in the full volume of air at all times as there is no throttle so all the added boost does is give the engine the ability to burn more fuel. Effectively lowering the boost would give you more black smoke, but not a lot of performance differential as a diesel works on a wide range of air to fuel ratios. In fact more boost at light throttle settings gives a more efficient burn and increases mpg but not power. Therefore more boost = a cleaner burn but more fuel will give you the performance, more boost without fuel does the square root of bugger all lol.

artiedtke · Jun 13th, 2014, 12:41

Interested in doing this.

I know about the synergy VP box, but could you enlighten us as to where you got your dawes valve from and boost gauge ?

Ta.

martin_r_smith · Jun 13th, 2014, 16:25

Dawes valve eBay 14.99! Same place for boost gauge.

brickman · Jun 14th, 2014, 09:57

Excellent info troublemaker! I'm aware how a diesel works, but the finer control of boost/fueling at lower throttles is what really interests me, thats one of the area's the newer diesels with VNT turbo's and crazy finely controlled injector's offer.

When I get my workshop up and running toward the end of summer i'm going to have a shot at lowering fifth gear by about 400-500rpm for motorway work (doing more and more of it, and 2000rpm for 58-60mph is just way too high, esp for this motor), and likely a fresh clutch! (was new before I got the car however don't think they changed or machined the fly, and it has eaten it alive in just 15k).

Any chance of some photo's of your MBC install? Sounds like you are jumping in on the hard line between the wastegate and actuator, rather than the BCS and actuator?

artiedtke · Jun 14th, 2014, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by brickman

Any chance of some photo's of your MBC install? Sounds like you are jumping in on the hard line between the wastegate and actuator, rather than the BCS and actuator?

Yes, photos would be awesome. This thread has inspired me to start messing aswell now.

martin_r_smith · Jun 14th, 2014, 12:30

I'll get some pics of mine up soon, think my setup is a little more complete than troublemakers at this current time

I am undergoing my next stage of tuning now and just fitted a modified ecu with removable programmable chips. My first tune is fairly normal but I'm working on an all out beast that will accommodate bigger injectors and turbo!

The first thing I've noticed with the ecu over the vp box is how refined it is, where the box increases fuel over the whole range by a set amount, a remap offers the ability to increase it where it's required. So no more off boost smoke for me!

martin_r_smith · Jun 14th, 2014, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by brickman

Any chance of some photo's of your MBC install? Sounds like you are jumping in on the hard line between the wastegate and actuator, rather than the BCS and actuator?

That's the one, if you put it between bcs and actuator you will reduce boost.

thetroublemaker · Jun 14th, 2014, 14:56

Yes,

What i did was undo both the banjo bolts on the turbo - these are 13mm's and removed the pipe from the car. I then used a pair of snips to cut the pipe where i wanted and a small drill bit to open the pipe back up again. If you make sure you have a good 1-2 metres of hose you can easily bring the controller up to either near the battery or use the stabiliser mount on the top of the engine to zip tie it to.

With the ronbox/synergy i bought this to between the battery and the air box. This then has a feed to go to the MAF. My understanding is the new ones are fully plug and play.

artiedtke · Jun 14th, 2014, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetroublemaker

Yes,

What i did was undo both the banjo bolts on the turbo - these are 13mm's and removed the pipe from the car. I then used a pair of snips to cut the pipe where i wanted and a small drill bit to open the pipe back up again. If you make sure you have a good 1-2 metres of hose you can easily bring the controller up to either near the battery or use the stabiliser mount on the top of the engine to zip tie it to.

With the ronbox/synergy i bought this to between the battery and the air box. This then has a feed to go to the MAF. My understanding is the new ones are fully plug and play.

Is it possible to replace the metal pipe with some banjo barb fittings ? To save ruining the stock pipe.

Also is there a chance of silicone hose melting down there with it being so close to the exhaust ? Surely the pipe is metal for a reason or is it just because the K14 is internally wastegated maybe ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin_r_smith

As I said with no bcs at all and no mbc the wastegate spring will only hold the wastegate shut until 7psi or there abouts, the reason for having the bcs is to apply positive pressure against the wastegate to keep it shut until the required boost level is reached (1 bar as standard). At this point the ecu triggers the bcs so the wastegate can open and diverts the positive pressure into the inlet. The only thing that opens the wastegate is the pressure coming from the compressor housing to wastegate pipe (steel pipe), so if you interrupt this line with an mbc then you will increase boost.

How did you work this out out of interest ? Am i correct in thinking that on a typical KKK K14 install the barb at the end of the wastegate actuator is not connected to anything ? So in the Volvo it is applying posotive pressure to this barb to effectively require more pressure to open the wastegate. So if the wastegate spring requires 7psi to open, and there is 1psi pushing from the opposite direction, it requires 8psi to open the wastegate (if air pressure maths work like that).

This is far from "standard" wastegate control right ?

Jun 12th, 2014, 22:13	#52
thetroublemaker Senior Member Last Online: Feb 20th, 2019 18:16 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: mk	Well theres no argument there about seeing the gauge there lol I would like to say a massive thankyou to martin, i went over to his on saturday and we had a play with the car, seems my non blanked EGR was stuck partially open and was basically acting as a massive waste gate, so there was no pressure being built up. We are now running it with the BCS bypassed and at 20psi held pressure (21 psi occasionally shown) 18 in lower gears, 20 in 3rd and 4th when the convertor locks up and the Synergy VP turned to max. I get a bit of light grey on hard acceleration, not massive amounts by any means, and the car feels very fast now and certainly punches above its weight. The fact my car is a standard 2.5d with the 15' rims on makes it all the more comedy when it goes zooming off at the lights or performing an overtake! Also brickman, the reason for no surging as follows: On a petrol more boost = more fuelling at the same time so therefore more power. On a diesel more boost only = more fuelling when you have increased it to suit. The engine takes in the full volume of air at all times as there is no throttle so all the added boost does is give the engine the ability to burn more fuel. Effectively lowering the boost would give you more black smoke, but not a lot of performance differential as a diesel works on a wide range of air to fuel ratios. In fact more boost at light throttle settings gives a more efficient burn and increases mpg but not power. Therefore more boost = a cleaner burn but more fuel will give you the performance, more boost without fuel does the square root of bugger all lol. __________________ 1999 C70 T5 GT ME7 Last edited by thetroublemaker; Jun 12th, 2014 at 22:18.

Jun 13th, 2014, 12:41	#53
artiedtke Just one more thing... Last Online: Jul 10th, 2020 14:44 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Wales	Interested in doing this. I know about the synergy VP box, but could you enlighten us as to where you got your dawes valve from and boost gauge ? Ta. __________________ '98 V40 2.0T B4204T - died... '96 855 2.5 TDI D5252T - 255,000 miles "Diesel without turbo is like a woman without boobs... sure you can drive it, but there's always something missing."

Jun 13th, 2014, 16:25	#54
martin_r_smith Premier Member Last Online: May 10th, 2022 21:01 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wiltshire	Dawes valve eBay 14.99! Same place for boost gauge. __________________ 1983 244

Jun 14th, 2014, 12:30	#57
martin_r_smith Premier Member Last Online: May 10th, 2022 21:01 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wiltshire	I'll get some pics of mine up soon, think my setup is a little more complete than troublemakers at this current time I am undergoing my next stage of tuning now and just fitted a modified ecu with removable programmable chips. My first tune is fairly normal but I'm working on an all out beast that will accommodate bigger injectors and turbo! The first thing I've noticed with the ecu over the vp box is how refined it is, where the box increases fuel over the whole range by a set amount, a remap offers the ability to increase it where it's required. So no more off boost smoke for me! __________________ 1983 244

Jun 14th, 2014, 14:56	#59
thetroublemaker Senior Member Last Online: Feb 20th, 2019 18:16 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: mk	Yes, What i did was undo both the banjo bolts on the turbo - these are 13mm's and removed the pipe from the car. I then used a pair of snips to cut the pipe where i wanted and a small drill bit to open the pipe back up again. If you make sure you have a good 1-2 metres of hose you can easily bring the controller up to either near the battery or use the stabiliser mount on the top of the engine to zip tie it to. With the ronbox/synergy i bought this to between the battery and the air box. This then has a feed to go to the MAF. My understanding is the new ones are fully plug and play. __________________ 1999 C70 T5 GT ME7

Jun 14th, 2014, 09:57	#55
brickman Premier Member Last Online: Nov 14th, 2023 10:40 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Glasgow	Excellent info troublemaker! I'm aware how a diesel works, but the finer control of boost/fueling at lower throttles is what really interests me, thats one of the area's the newer diesels with VNT turbo's and crazy finely controlled injector's offer. When I get my workshop up and running toward the end of summer i'm going to have a shot at lowering fifth gear by about 400-500rpm for motorway work (doing more and more of it, and 2000rpm for 58-60mph is just way too high, esp for this motor), and likely a fresh clutch! (was new before I got the car however don't think they changed or machined the fly, and it has eaten it alive in just 15k). Any chance of some photo's of your MBC install? Sounds like you are jumping in on the hard line between the wastegate and actuator, rather than the BCS and actuator?

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