Bsr rica mte

[s60ben]

Originally Posted by RT Mechanics

Hi Dream3r

This is the first i have heard of a problem with your car or throttle mapping how an earth can a problem be solved if you don't tell Rica or Me ??

Russ

Oh come on Russ...

It's a VERY well known thing that all the RICA maps do, makes them shred tyres and take off like a scalded cat (great for chav races at traffic lights).. Gives the inital "RICA" tuned feel....but they then run out of "puff".

It's not the first time you've heard about it either..

http://forums.t5d5.org/wheel-spin-mo...in-t4839.html/

@ Post 34 is your response.

At least you dealt with that customers issue, but then it didn't cost anything...

[Jim S70R]

Originally Posted by s60ben

Oh come on Russ...

It's a VERY well known thing that all the RICA maps do, makes them shred tyres and take off like a scalded cat (great for chav races at traffic lights).. Gives the inital "RICA" tuned feel....but they then run out of "puff".

It's not the first time you've heard about it either..

http://forums.t5d5.org/wheel-spin-mo...in-t4839.html/

@ Post 34 is your response.

At least you dealt with that customers issue, but then it didn't cost anything...

Thought I would join the playground....

I have to say i don't agree with that RICA comment based on personal experiences.
Having a RICA stage 1 myself I wouldn't say that the car runs out of puff if anything it is consistant right through the rev range, the same goes for my brothers 850R aswell! I have been in and had occassion to pit up against an MTE remapped 850R manual. It was very clear that my car didn't loose puff up top as the distance between the MTE'd car and myself was increasing with vehicle speed, myself being the lead vehicle. If anything I would say the running out of puff up top could be said for the MTE'd remap that the 850R manual had fitted. I am assuming the MTE'd car was running well based on a rolling road performance of 283 bhp. Perhaps the RICA'd cars that you have been in were not the best examples or were in need of some work?

In any case this is my personal experience of the Rica and MTE I am sure others will have experienced the opposite ect ect

I don't wish to start a war but after reading the through the whole thread over the last few days I thought I would offer up my experiences.

[foggyjames]

To be honest, I think Ben's "running out of puff" comment is a bit unfair...unless it's meant to be relative to that initial surge of torque, where the engine naturally makes more power. Any running out of puff going on is mainly related to the weedy turbo. The two differences I've commonly heard as as follows...

1) The RICA software brings the boost in harder, giving more torque down low (which may not be as good a thing as it seems...especially if you're buying the tyres).

The true difference here may actually be in the way that the different maps cope with the natural characteristics of the engine. The small turbo and mild cams are geared towards giving the engine strong mid-RPM performance. Running flat (but raised) boost pressure is likely to exaggerate this effect. The MTE software may (and I don't know...please do chip in if you have direct experience) actually turn the boost down a little in this area to give a more linear torque delivery. Certainly some of the factory cars do this to provide a dead flat torque curve.

2) The RICA and BSR peak power (i.e. at high RPM) claims appear to be significantly higher than what you're actually likely to achieve. In fact, all three manufacturers' software typically ends up giving you more or less the same peak power with standard hardware - somewhere in the 280-285bhp range.

Beyond that, I think there's probably very little in it (as far as off the shelf maps go, at least).

cheers

James

[s60ben]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

To be honest, I think Ben's "running out of puff" comment is a bit unfair...unless it's meant to be relative to that initial surge of torque, where the engine naturally makes more power. Any running out of puff going on is mainly related to the weedy turbo. The two differences I've commonly heard as as follows...

1) The RICA software brings the boost in harder, giving more torque down low (which may not be as good a thing as it seems...especially if you're buying the tyres).

The true difference here may actually be in the way that the different maps cope with the natural characteristics of the engine. The small turbo and mild cams are geared towards giving the engine strong mid-RPM performance. Running flat (but raised) boost pressure is likely to exaggerate this effect. The MTE software may (and I don't know...please do chip in if you have direct experience) actually turn the boost down a little in this area to give a more linear torque delivery. Certainly some of the factory cars do this to provide a dead flat torque curve.

2) The RICA and BSR peak power (i.e. at high RPM) claims appear to be significantly higher than what you're actually likely to achieve. In fact, all three manufacturers' software typically ends up giving you more or less the same peak power with standard hardware - somewhere in the 280-285bhp range.

Beyond that, I think there's probably very little in it (as far as off the shelf maps go, at least).

cheers

James

The "out of puff" comment, was badly put tbh James.

My experience is with the P2's, and certainly with the VCT connected you can indeed see the difference.

Over the whole, there probably isn't a great deal in it, however I much prefer the driveability of the MTE - which is why I went for one, having personally compared the different maps.

There's certainly a large part of Number 1 above involved in the RICA maps - and I didn't buy a volvo to Chav off from Traffic Lights, and I'd wholeheartedly agree with Number 2.

[st5ve]

It would be great to have some of these cars out on the track and compare the diffrences, I only have experience of MTE and think its a good map coupled with very good customer service.

I have heard that with a RICA the boost can fluctuate at WOT due to running a tad lean, how true it is I am unsure and for normal road driving probably would make no diffrence at all.

The best part of a forum is sharing experience and gaining from others experience it is all part of evolving. To have regular meets and the ocasional track day is very good for gaining and sharing knowledge.

[Hemichromis]

Originally Posted by Speedy

This just adds to the dilema on whether to get it done. For those of us watching the thread pondering not knowing anything about the historical politics - Box thingy/RICA/MTE/BSR ahhhhhhhhhh

well i ahve scoured the internet and been watching this. i have yet to hear a single bad word said about MTE or Don. infact heaps of praise! my only concern is that i love the low down torque (after years of owning a subaru i have decided to drive sedately) MTE seems to have less low down torque.


i did find one poster who posted two dyno graphs of his car. one with rica one with MTE (t5 i think). the graphs were missing as it was old but he said that the rica had more torque down low but the MTE had more power at the top. the MTE also run richer AFR was 11:1 as opposed to 13:1 and at lower temps.
(i'll search again and try and post a link)


i have a reputable RICA company nearby(so bad customer service isn't really an issue) and indeed Don from kalmar is only just over an hour away.

MTE is one hundred pounds cheaper(but no ppc)
known as a drivable map.
no bad reviews must been they are doing something right but it seems bad dealers are a major source of most RICA complaints.

its difficult to figure out where to spend your 500+ but i'm leaning toward MTE

[Hemichromis]

just notice that even though they sday rica has more down low according to dyno charts from both companies Rica has 50 nm less than the BSR at 2000rpm i know both companies are accused of exaggerating but this is a sizeable difference.

[Hemichromis]

Don could you tell me, are the quoted figures for the 2.4t of 240hp and 380nm tested with the exhaust as well. looking at the swedish website it looks like the remap and exhaust come as a stage one package.

thanks

[Hemichromis]

link about MTE and RICA comparison with AFR.

no graphs though so no real proof

[GRN Motors]

i could post up a graph of the power runs i had at Milton Keynes not long ago.

if that will help????