Wheels/Tyres: Anyone else getting their Winter tyres ready?

[Daim]

Originally Posted by lillia

You've made many good points. And I admire your patience in giving these explanations. I'm afraid I lost mine a while ago, despite my best efforts to convince the Brits I know to at least consider fitting winter tyres. My sister fitted all season tyres last September as a compromise after I reminded her that she had two young children to travel with and could not afford to blow off her job due to snow, but her in-laws' cars were all stuck at home or at work during the winter, which they complained bitterly about.

It's all about ignorance, and I don't do very well in the face of the wilfull variety. What British motorists need is a good lesson in road safety, tyres, traction, etc. And then they would understand exactly why several countries have laws mandating the use of winter tyres during certain months of the year.

What the naysayers do not understand is that the whole point of winter tyres - apart from personal safety - is to enable people to go about their business normally, to enable traffic and deliveries and the country in general to function precisely as they would during the summer months. Thus Royal Mail would not have screwed up its deliveries for months "due to the winter", a laughable excuse if there ever was one. And NO-ONE would be able to say that they could not get to work because of the snow.

I'm amazed that an aspiring politician or government minister has not seized the initiative and pointed out just how much the country would gain (or not lose) by fitting winter tyres to vehicles during winter.

Another source of annoyance to me is the constant reference to salt as grit. In the rest of Europe, "grit" is mainly SAND. Salt is used to melt the snow to a degree, however, in very cold temperatures this quickly freezes into very smooth ice, turning roads into a veritable skating rink. Thus instead of moaning about the price and unavailability of salt during winter, the mayors and other powers that be ought to be liberally sprinkling roads and walkways with sand, and motorways with a mixture of salt and sand. THAT is what grit is. Salt alone just won't do it. I swear, I wanted to scream at the ignorance on show last winter, each time I heard a BBC person solemnly informing listeners/viewers that there was a shortage of "grit", when sand was in plentiful supply. How many people slipped and broke their arms, legs and hips last year due to Councils sitting on their hands because they had no salt, when they could have improved things by spreading sand on sidewalks?

In many places in Sweden, houses will have a large green container with the word "S A N D" printed on it in black. This is filled up with sand, either by the Council or by the homeowners themselves towards the end of autumn. Every homeowner owns a snow shovel. When snow falls, they first scrape/shovel away the snow and then scatter sand over their driveways and walkways. Some people will sprinkle some salt as well. The first result is that they have no difficulty driving in and out of their driveways, even if they are on inclines. The second is that they greatly minimise the risk of slipping on the walkways either on or immediately outside of their properties. In fact, it has been the law for some time that if anyone slips on ice outside a person's gate, then the owner is at fault. An unfortunate result is that many people in cities have taken to cordoning off the walkways and sidewalks around/ourside of their offices and houses so as to avoid lawsuits. This forces people to walk on the roads instead.

With winter tyres, I am able to drive at 120 - 160 km/h between Göteborg and Oslo and between Stockholm and Göteborg and other far-flung places without worry and without being timid. Best of all, I don't usually have to worry about other people skidding into me because other drivers around me have also fitted winter tyres. For me, this is a win-win situation.

Absolutely! I agree in all terms there! We don't get long winters with hard long snow spells normally, but the last two years were and I am so damn happy that I have winter tyres. I get anywhere at anytime.

Originally Posted by CTCNetwork

Hi,

Indeed, but then in countries where roads are regularly under snow for weeks at a time (months even) over the winter period then this is a sensible precaution.
How long do tyres last when stored? 2 years, 5 years, 10 years - before they start to deteriorate/go off? Spending £350 for one use (before the tyres go off) may seem a little excessive to some people...

And in Germany (certainly some regions of Germany) the householder is required by law to clear the pavement that borders his/her/their property.
Not so here in the UK. Mores the pity really!

Des. . .

Winter tyres aren't supposed to be stored, you drive them! Mine are now in third season. You don't fit them WHEN it snows, you fit them BEFORE it snows, meaning when winter starts, as it tends to get cold in winters, you know. Sometimes so cold, that you can measure the temperture in length!

The rule of thumb here is: October til Easter. As in German: Oktober bis Ostern (O-O). Last year I fitted mine beginning of October, even though we had a warm spell... In Autumn temps up to 25°c, but the nights were frosty... They aren't like shoes, where you wear those matching the weather outside...! If you drive Winter tyres and Summer tyres, you get the same mileage, like out of 2 sets of tyres although actually you get more, as "all weathers" wear off quicker in Summer due to the rubber mix... So if you buy say a set of all seasons, you'll get say 4 years. If you buy separate Winters and Summers, you'll get say 6-8 seasons of each - depending on your mileage a year.

We have companies here, which will even lease you some Winter tyres for the Winter. You don't have to stock them etc. and they are normally the current season's...

[Bill_56]

Originally Posted by CTCNetwork

Hi,

Indeed, but then in countries where roads are regularly under snow for weeks at a time (months even) over the winter period then this is a sensible precaution.
How long do tyres last when stored? 2 years, 5 years, 10 years - before they start to deteriorate/go off? Spending £350 for one use (before the tyres go off) may seem a little excessive to some people...

I see Daim has already responded by the time I finished typing but I'll post anyway, making much the same point...

Those of us who use them put the winter tyres on from (say) November to March, so it doesn't matter whether we have 4 hours of snow or 4 months.

As far as running costs goes, the tyres themselves add nothing at all in the long run because, when the winter tyres are on the car, you are saving wear & tear on the summer tyres. Though you do need to factor in the cost of either a spare set of (cheap) wheels, or paying somebody to swap the tyres over each Spring and Autumn.

And again, it needs to be stressed, winter tyres are not just for snow. They are heaps better for frosty and icy roads too and, arguably, for any other conditions sub 7 Celsius. They possibly saved my neck on one occasion when there had been no snow at all but I came around a bend and encountered a 'demolition derby' scene on sheet ice on a country road... several cars (one a police car) already in the ditch, an Audi in front slid around and nearly joined the others, whereas mine barely twitched.

[Prufrock]

Some excellent contributions here, and the catalyst for my decision some years ago (to fit winter tyres) was friends in Germany - in the both the north and south.

I fit/remove mine usually when the clocks change (in the UK). Storage of my winter wheel tyre combo is no problem as I have room - ultra violet light will casue rubber to deteriorate so store in the dark and flat, not on the tread.

If we have any snow after the end of March we have one Volvo with"temperate climate"tyres: these are better than summer tyres in winter but not quite as good as winter ones.

My Wife and I have elderly parents in the south of England, and notwithstanding the work/commuting issues, we have to remain mobile all year around - mobile and SAFE.

As a matter of interest the pure winter tyres are fitted to my 745 or even my 744.

The temperates are on my Wife's S40.

Prufrock.

[fwoofy]

Purely out of curiosity, I telephoned my car insurance company to ask the question, “Am I covered if I fit a set of winter tyres to either one of my two cars?”

The answer I got was amazing. I would not be covered; however, I would be covered if I used snow chains or snow socks. They informed me that the winter tyres were not manufacturers spec.

So, maybe worth asking your insurance company first if you would be covered whilst using winter tyres.

[RobbieH]

Originally Posted by fwoofy

Purely out of curiosity, I telephoned my car insurance company to ask the question, “Am I covered if I fit a set of winter tyres to either one of my two cars?”

The answer I got was amazing. I would not be covered; however, I would be covered if I used snow chains or snow socks. They informed me that the winter tyres were not manufacturers spec.

So, maybe worth asking your insurance company first if you would be covered whilst using winter tyres.

Simple answer - ring them up again and (politely) tell them they're wrong and to stop trying to rip people off

This has been discussed enough since the last two bad winters.

http://www.smmt.co.uk/2010/12/smmt-r...-winter-tyres/

SMMT reassures motorists on fiscal and practical benefits of winter tyres
Posted 0:00 Friday 3 December 2010

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders has today reassured motorists that they will not be affected by increased car insurance premiums as a result of using winter tyres to improve their vehicle’s safety during the winter months. Following discussions with the Association of British Insurers (ABI), SMMT has clarified that the fitment of winter tyres does not constitute a modification that will affect premiums.

SMMT is recommending motorists use winter tyres to improve grip and overall stopping distances during harsh winter driving conditions and is urging drivers to seek further advice from their local franchised dealer.
“Winter tyres ensure that the driver gets maximum traction on and off road, thereby ensuring that safety and stability are optimised,” said SMMT Chief Executive, Paul Everitt. “Despite increasingly harsh winter conditions in the UK, only a handful of drivers have vehicles with winter tyres, but there are many vehicle manufacturers providing a range of winter tyre options to ensure optimum performance and driver safety during winter driving conditions.”
It is proved that winter tyres significantly improve grip and reduce stopping distances in temperatures that drop below 7?Celsius because, unlike normal driving tyres, they do not harden. This enables them to maintain better traction in low temperatures as well as in the wet and on snow, slush and ice. Tests found that stopping distances were reduced by 4.8 metres on wet roads and 11 metres on icy roads when travelling at 20mph.

http://forums.t5d5.org/topic/13963-winter-tyres/

[Bill_56]

Originally Posted by fwoofy

Purely out of curiosity, I telephoned my car insurance company to ask the question, “Am I covered if I fit a set of winter tyres to either one of my two cars?”

The answer I got was amazing. I would not be covered; however, I would be covered if I used snow chains or snow socks. They informed me that the winter tyres were not manufacturers spec.

So, maybe worth asking your insurance company first if you would be covered whilst using winter tyres.

They've probably just made a mistake through lack of training, I got a similar response when I first spoke to my own insurers. They told me it as a 'modification', loaded the premium by 70 quid or so, and warned me they wouldn't reinsure me come renewal But it was clear the real problem was that the bod' in the call centre had never heard of winter tyres and really didn't understand what I was talking about.

I followed it up with a formal complaint that got to be processed by somebody higher up the food chain, which resulted in a very courteous and apologetic phone call, a full refund of my extra premium and, of course, a written confirmation that the call centre had erred and my winter tyres were fine. They also indicated that additional training for call-centre staff would be considered.

But I do strongly agree, even if it's a hassle, you need to get the Insurers agreement when you fit winter tyres. If you are fitting the tyres onto wheels that differ from the factory-fitted originals, you should tell them that too.

[Biotoxic]

I am from Eastern Europe (but not Polish by the way ) back home winter tyres are required by the law from the 1st of December to the 1st of March. If you don't fit them by then and if the police stop you, you will be fined. If you are still driving without them then probably you will crash on a slight bend or you will crash into somebody. Some say that next best thing to winter (snow & ice tyres are called just winter tyres) tyres is a good summer tyres, but not all summer tyres will do just fine.

These are summer tyres but they are bad for snow and ice.
Listed from the WORST to BAD tyre thread patters:
If you have similar to this then stay off the car/road in icy conditions!

Same as the first one

very, very bad...

just bad...

And now winter tyres in order from medium good to excellent:


This is somewhat ok

Don't be fooled by sellers who just offer you winter tyres, better is to check them out yourself. The most important thing is to stay away from ''winter tyres'' with straight treads like in the picture bellow on the left hand side


this is one of the major differences from summer tyres, when you buy a winter tyre look for a horizontal type pattern, but not fully horizontal, see next picture.
this pattern is good for warm days (+5 C ) and cold nights (bellow -1 C )

But this is close to perfect




The best choice for snow and ice would be this tyre pattern with studs, but as far as I know they are illegal at the moment in the uk.



If this and the next winter will be cold and with snow that will last more than a month then uk government probably will issue a new law that says that for that time period winter tyres will be mandatory (my prediction).

Any more questions?

[RobbieH]

Originally Posted by Biotoxic

The best choice for snow and ice would be this tyre pattern with studs, but as far as I know they are illegal at the moment in the uk.

Looks like I made a good choice (sans studs that is)

[Mr Sam]

i was planning on getting some for my steels as my current wheels have identical tread to that top picture, they still loose traction in 2nd in perfect conditions though ;-)

[Biotoxic]

RobbieH This is good, but not the best.
You might struggle a little bit up hills. If anybody else post a picture, then please write what company's tyres are they

If anybody is looking for winter tyres on bay for example, then please take a look how much thread is left, SAFE MINIMUM is 4mm (for summer tyres its 1.6 mm) I have used Pirelli and Nokian tyres myself, both were good, but difference was in price. For the price of new Pirelli I could by 2 Nokian part worn tyres... same grip....

If you see a sweet price for winter tyres like in here eBay
do not buy them, thread is not enough ( in this case 4-5 mm), it still be better than good summer tyres but this is just for few hundred miles until they are bellow 2 mm mark...

I usually mount winter tyres on R15 steel rims, I keep them in a garage, so when its getting colder over night I just change the tyres the next day, after few months I just remove them and swap back to summer ones. If you have a limited space then mount them on existing alloys. Some tyre fitters offer to keep your summer tires in they warehouse during the winter, I don't know if they do that here in UK..

oh yeah, if you buy used winter tyres then from my knowledge you can by them from Sweden or rest of the Scandinavian countries. Minimum worn tread level for them was 7mm, way over 4mm mark I think than new tyres comes with 10 or 12 mm tread.
By the way, some cheap made in China tyres outperforms good brands in winter tyre tests, main difference was in price



----edit---

Forgot to add...
If you buy winter tyres and if your car is no heavier than ~ 1400kg then stick to size no bigger than 195, it will keep your car in good contact with the ground but if you choose lets say 225 then sometimes you will feel like your car has a skis attached to them( car will be light enough not to ''sink'' in the snow)


P.S. I haven't read the whole pages in this thread, just the last page.