Amazon: New (to me) 1963 Volvo 122

[Othen]

Today was a bit wet and windy for fitting doors and spray painting the sills, so I did some oily bits.

Readers may recall there was a very slow leak at the gearbox, and a correspondent suggested it might be the speedometer drive from the Type D OD. I had ordered an O ring and a top hat seal with the door seals and window scrapers, so I had them ready to fit today.

With GAM's front wheels up on some ramps access way pretty good. The old oil looked a bit gloopy, not much like 20W50, although that may be partly my fault because I'd topped it up with a cupful of 80W a week or two ago.

Getting the drive out was easy enough:



... eagle eyed readers may have spotted the problem already:



... that's right, there was no sign of a top hat seal whatsoever - which I rather suspect was the reason for the leak. Fortunately I had one, and changed that and the O ring:



I'm guessing I put it in the right place! So, I'm hoping that solves the gearbox leak problem.

I've also confirmed I have the black 19 tooth drive pinion for the speedometer, which is why the instrument reads 12% slow (see the discussion above, it isn't worth trying to fix).



I also noted that I would appear to have a M40 gearbox, rather than a M41 as I had thought:



I'm not sure how much difference there is between a M40 and M41 unit, but here is a question. The recommended lubricant for the M40 is 80W, whereas the M41 plus type D is 20W50 motor oil (because of the OD more than the gearbox I suspect). I'm pretty sure I've done the right thing in filling the combo with 20W50, but I'd welcome any comments from those much more knowledgeable than myself.

All seems well. I took GAM for a test drive, first to Morrison's gas station (about a mile away). The sender I had adjusted a few weeks was making the gauge read a little over half full, and the motor car had covered 102 miles on the odometer (which equates to 115 real miles). Filling up with Morrison's very cheapest E10 took 25 litres, so 5 1/2 gallons. GAM continues to return 20 MPG on exclusively local runs. Importantly: just over half on the gauge now equates to just under half a tank. Whilst this is much more accurate than previously, I'd rather it read a little low than a little high, so there may be a need for a little more adjustment yet.

GAM and I continued for another 5 or 6 miles to try out the gearbox and the OD - all is silky smooth. When we got home I looked underneath and couldn't see any evidence of oil leaking from the speedometer drive. I'm hoping the top hat seal has done the trick.

Fixing oily bits is so much easier than bodywork, but I'll get on with that NSR door soon :-).

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Today was a bit wet and windy for fitting doors and spray painting the sills, so I did some oily bits.

Readers may recall there was a very slow leak at the gearbox, and a correspondent suggested it might be the speedometer drive from the Type D OD. I had ordered an O ring and a top hat seal with the door seals and window scrapers, so I had them ready to fit today.

With GAM's front wheels up on some ramps access way pretty good. The old oil looked a bit gloopy, not much like 20W50, although that may be partly my fault because I'd topped it up with a cupful of 80W a week or two ago.

Getting the drive out was easy enough:



... eagle eyed readers may have spotted the problem already:



... that's right, there was no sign of a top hat seal whatsoever - which I rather suspect was the reason for the leak. Fortunately I had one, and changed that and the O ring:



I'm guessing I put it in the right place! So, I'm hoping that solves the gearbox leak problem.

I've also confirmed I have the black 19 tooth drive pinion for the speedometer, which is why the instrument reads 12% slow (see the discussion above, it isn't worth trying to fix).



I also noted that I would appear to have a M40 gearbox, rather than a M41 as I had thought:



I'm not sure how much difference there is between a M40 and M41 unit, but here is a question. The recommended lubricant for the M40 is 80W, whereas the M41 plus type D is 20W50 motor oil (because of the OD more than the gearbox I suspect). I'm pretty sure I've done the right thing in filling the combo with 20W50, but I'd welcome any comments from those much more knowledgeable than myself.

All seems well. I took GAM for a test drive, first to Morrison's gas station (about a mile away). The sender I had adjusted a few weeks was making the gauge read a little over half full, and the motor car had covered 102 miles on the odometer (which equates to 115 real miles). Filling up with Morrison's very cheapest E10 took 25 litres, so 5 1/2 gallons. GAM continues to return 20 MPG on exclusively local runs. Importantly: just over half on the gauge now equates to just under half a tank. Whilst this is much more accurate than previously, I'd rather it read a little low than a little high, so there may be a need for a little more adjustment yet.

GAM and I continued for another 5 or 6 miles to try out the gearbox and the OD - all is silky smooth. When we got home I looked underneath and couldn't see any evidence of oil leaking from the speedometer drive. I'm hoping the top hat seal has done the trick.

Fixing oily bits is so much easier than bodywork, but I'll get on with that NSR door soon :-).

Alan

Excellent stuff Alan!

I've known a few people over the years who do bodywork and most of them would say the opposite to what you've said (and also what i would normally say) but i think i've worked it out.
Doing oily bits needs a particular skill set and mind set, particularly to work logically and methodically.
Bodywork needs a different skill set and mind set, more emotional and artistic with more patience to get those last little imperfections out and tends not to be so critical on the steps of the process. Of course there are flaws in both of those statements, they are meant more as a "general idea" of the two things.

Don't know about you but i have to be in the right frame of mind to tackle bodywork stuff and when i am, i can't usually focus the normal way on mechanical stuff.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Excellent stuff Alan!

I've known a few people over the years who do bodywork and most of them would say the opposite to what you've said (and also what i would normally say) but i think i've worked it out.
Doing oily bits needs a particular skill set and mind set, particularly to work logically and methodically.
Bodywork needs a different skill set and mind set, more emotional and artistic with more patience to get those last little imperfections out and tends not to be so critical on the steps of the process. Of course there are flaws in both of those statements, they are meant more as a "general idea" of the two things.

Don't know about you but i have to be in the right frame of mind to tackle bodywork stuff and when i am, i can't usually focus the normal way on mechanical stuff.

I would agree with that Dave - hence doing the two types of jobs on separate days. Today is wet and windy, so it wouldn't have been good for fettling doors and painting. It was okay under GAM though, out of the elements.

I don't think I have the aesthetic bent for bodywork, whereas oily bits are more logical and I can normally see what is wrong very quickly.

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I would agree with that Dave - hence doing the two types of jobs on separate days. Today is wet and windy, so it wouldn't have been good for fettling doors and painting. It was okay under GAM though, out of the elements.

I don't think I have the aesthetic bent for bodywork, whereas oily bits are more logical and I can normally see what is wrong very quickly.

:-)

I'm very much the same Alan and also i've found a similar thing between metalwork and woodwork. My woodwork (except for a few things when i've had the right head on) is pretty dire but most of my metalwork is fairly good and i've found most people who like working with wood don't like working with metal.

[142 Guy]

The Volvo service manual for the D type OD recommends SAE 30 or SAE 20W40 motor oil.

https://volvo1800pictures.com/docume...0_140_1800.pdf

The J OD gets the same recommendations. The service manuals generally recommend SAE 80 gear oil for the M40 with SAE 90 being a hot weather option.

I believe the SAE 30 is for 'warm' weather, the SAE 20W40 for more variable temperatures . SAE 30 motor oil would have about the same viscosity as SAE 80 gear oil.

Your 20W50 is probably OK. If it is a conventional motor oil it might be a little thicker than the 20W40 at low temperatures (the '20s' probably don't exactly match up in the viscosity profiles). As long as the gear oil was GL4 (not the synchro eating GL5) you are probably OK mixing it with the motor oil.

All of the historical recommendations for oil use were based upon conventional oils. Synthetics change that because synthetics generally have flatter viscosity versus temperature profiles (a high viscosity index). A synthetic SAE 30 motor oil or synthetic SAE 90 gear oil may eliminate the multi weight requirement just because they don't get as thick at low temperatures.

If you have fixed the oil leaks, I like Red Line MTL. Fixing the oil leak is important because Red Line is definitely on the pricey side. Red Line has friction modifiers that improve the operation of the synchronizer rings and it is a synthetic with minimal viscosity change with temperature. The Red Line MTL is an SAE 75W80 GL1, 3, 4 gear oil and it shifts nicely in cold or hot temperatures.

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I'm very much the same Alan and also i've found a similar thing between metalwork and woodwork. My woodwork (except for a few things when i've had the right head on) is pretty dire but most of my metalwork is fairly good and i've found most people who like working with wood don't like working with metal.

I think much may depend upon how one was taught, 'L.S.'.

Anton Rippon, in his book 'A Derby Boy' accurately describes three teachers at his old school in the title town.

He says of H, the woodwork master, " ... he was one of the most dangerous teachers in the school. He had a deskful of offensive weapons, could throw lumps of wood and chisels with unerring accuracy, and had a favourite habit of clamping a boy's tie (he was still wearing it, of course) into a bench vice and leaving the errant pupil there for the remainder of the lesson.".

Of S, H's metalwork counterpart, he says, " ... a wild-eyed man never been seen to smile ... ", one who would hold back classes until every piece of equipment had been accounted for. S's most well-used phrase was, 'Nobody leaves; there's a scriber missing.'.

Of P, another master who taught both woodwork and technical drawing, Rippon says, " ... a meek and mild man who often had to summon the aid of H and S to quell a rebellious class.".

I smile when I read Rippon's book. It brings back bitter-sweet memories, for, as you have probably by now guessed, I went to that same school!

Regards, John.

[Derek UK]

Don't worry about the M40 plate on the gearbox. That's not unusual. As long as the case has the level plug in the "high" position it is for use with an overdrive.

Did you say you were positive it came from an 1800 and not originally from an Amazon? As I mentioned earlier the 2 overdrives use a different drive gear internally so the 1800 0ne uses a black fine toothed plug in gear. Yours is broken I see and that is what happens if you try and run the black gear on the coarser Amazon drive gear.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 142 Guy

The Volvo service manual for the D type OD recommends SAE 30 or SAE 20W40 motor oil.

https://volvo1800pictures.com/docume...0_140_1800.pdf

The J OD gets the same recommendations. The service manuals generally recommend SAE 80 gear oil for the M40 with SAE 90 being a hot weather option.

I believe the SAE 30 is for 'warm' weather, the SAE 20W40 for more variable temperatures . SAE 30 motor oil would have about the same viscosity as SAE 80 gear oil.

Your 20W50 is probably OK. If it is a conventional motor oil it might be a little thicker than the 20W40 at low temperatures (the '20s' probably don't exactly match up in the viscosity profiles). As long as the gear oil was GL4 (not the synchro eating GL5) you are probably OK mixing it with the motor oil.

All of the historical recommendations for oil use were based upon conventional oils. Synthetics change that because synthetics generally have flatter viscosity versus temperature profiles (a high viscosity index). A synthetic SAE 30 motor oil or synthetic SAE 90 gear oil may eliminate the multi weight requirement just because they don't get as thick at low temperatures.

If you have fixed the oil leaks, I like Red Line MTL. Fixing the oil leak is important because Red Line is definitely on the pricey side. Red Line has friction modifiers that improve the operation of the synchronizer rings and it is a synthetic with minimal viscosity change with temperature. The Red Line MTL is an SAE 75W80 GL1, 3, 4 gear oil and it shifts nicely in cold or hot temperatures.

Thank you so much - all good advice.

I was aware that the green book directs 20W40, but I use 20W50 mineral oil for both GAM and the RB, and so made a command decision to use it. Manual gearboxes don't get very hot (compared with engines that is) so the upper viscosity range probably isn't all that significant.

I'll check under the motor car in the morn to see if that annoying little leak has been fixed.

:-)

[ITSv40]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

I think much may depend upon how one was taught, 'L.S.'.

Anton Rippon, in his book 'A Derby Boy' accurately describes three teachers at his old school in the title town.

He says of H, the woodwork master, " ... he was one of the most dangerous teachers in the school. He had a deskful of offensive weapons, could throw lumps of wood and chisels with unerring accuracy, and had a favourite habit of clamping a boy's tie (he was still wearing it, of course) into a bench vice and leaving the errant pupil there for the remainder of the lesson.".

Of S, H's metalwork counterpart, he says, " ... a wild-eyed man never been seen to smile ... ", one who would hold back classes until every piece of equipment had been accounted for. S's most well-used phrase was, 'Nobody leaves; there's a scriber missing.'.

Of P, another master who taught both woodwork and technical drawing, Rippon says, " ... a meek and mild man who often had to summon the aid of H and S to quell a rebellious class.".

I smile when I read Rippon's book. It brings back bitter-sweet memories, for, as you have probably by now guessed, I went to that same school!

Regards, John.

Totally agree ^^^^^^^

I went to a bog standard Secondary Modern. The metalwork teacher was a sadist, any slight misdemeanour resulted in a very tight pull of a small tuft of hair on the scalp. I absolutely hated him and as a result hated metalwork. The woodwork teacher, by contrast, was a real gentleman and had a super rapport with the pupils and as a result I enjoyed woodwork. Fast forward 30 years and the same teacher was a Scout Master and my lad really took to him and got a lot out of his time in the scouts.

I was lucky being a farmer's son I experienced hands on mechanical jobs and fabricating work in both metal and wood at home, so now feel comfortable with anything practical, no matter what the medium. I just don't like electronics and IT. I think that stems from not being able to see what is going on.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by ITSv40

Totally agree ^^^^^^^

I went to a bog standard Secondary Modern. The metalwork teacher was a sadist, any slight misdemeanour resulted in a very tight pull of a small tuft of hair on the scalp. I absolutely hated him and as a result hated metalwork. The woodwork teacher, by contrast, was a real gentleman and had a super rapport with the pupils and as a result I enjoyed woodwork. Fast forward 30 years and the same teacher was a Scout Master and my lad really took to him and got a lot out of his time in the scouts.

I was lucky being a farmer's son I experienced hands on mechanical jobs and fabricating work in both metal and wood at home, so now feel comfortable with anything practical, no matter what the medium. I just don't like electronics and IT. I think that stems from not being able to see what is going on.

I think i must have been fairly lucky with my teachers, none were that vicious but our chemistry teacher (at my second secondary school) was a "bucket'n'shovel" merchant when doing experiments and regularly cleared the chemistry lab and had the fire brigade called (like weekly for regularly!) to deal with toxic gas, fires or sometimes both not to mention chemical spills.

Only instructor i had was my Electronics instructor at first year of Technical Training School where many apprentices spent the first year of their apprenticeship, regardless of which engineering discipline they would go into in the coming years.
He was a dead shot with the board rubber and pieces of chalk until one lunch time we removed all the pieces of chalk and the spare board rubbers leaving him just one of each, the board rubber was put on top of a flourescent light fitting above the board that he couldn't reach being a gigantic 5'0" in his shoes.
We all did our best to wind him up that afternoon and when he threw that piece of chalk he found himself on the end of many pieces of chalk coming at him!
Then he told the shortest of us (a towering 5'2 over him! ) to retrieve the board rubber from the light having finally spotted it.

As such, the only thing i can conclude, certainly for myself, is my inadequacy with woodwork is just that - i'm inadequate at woodwork.