240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[john.wigley]

None of my Volvos liked anything other than genuine Volvo or Bosch plugs (and points), Alan. Those, and genuine Volvo oil filters (with a NRV) are items that I would not compromise with.

Regards, John.

[Laird Scooby]

The good news is you didn't break a spark plug, you broke a plug. Champions are well known as simply being plugs to prevent compression escaping with no electrical qualities except maybe a short circuit to earth.

Allegedly Volvo plugs are made by Bosch, Bosch quality on the whole has gone down the tubes IMHO in recent times so the Denso plugs were a good choice.

Was the engine cold or hot when you did the compression test and did you wedge the throttle wide open and plug the fuel inlet to the carb before testing?

Usually the method i've used in the past on carb cars is to remove the fuel hose from the carb, fit an M8 bolt in it to plug the end then start the car to run out any fuel in the carb.
Then all 4 plugs out, wedge the throttle wide open (a broom is useful for this, head of broom against seat backrest, top of handle on throttle and wind the back rest forward tohold the broom in position holding the throttle down in kickdown position) then in turn fit the compression tester in each plug hole and use a remote starter button to operate the starter motor (or just a length of wire with the right terminal on the end to connect to the exciter terminal on the solenoid, jump it to battery +ve to spin the starter) and all done hot to get the correct readings.

A useful tip for the plugs is a piece of 1/4" (6mm) bore fuel hose, it fits the pip on the end perfectly and will turn the plug in or out once loosened. Very handy for refitting to avoid cross-threading - if it cross-threads the tubing slips allowing you to undo the plug again and as you feel it fall into the thread correctly while turning CCW, then turn in the correct direction to insert the plug. A refinement is a #2 Pozidriv screwdriver, the shaft is normally about 6mm diameter so fits the hose nicely and give extra reach and control.

Since i found Bosch plugs (and many other components) are no longer anywhere as good as they were 20 years ago, i've always used NGK plugs with Denso being a close second. I wouldn't use a Champion plug for reasons already stated and now rank Bosch nearer Champion than Denso!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

None of my Volvos liked anything other than genuine Volvo or Bosch plugs (and points), Alan. Those, and genuine Volvo oil filters (with a NRV) are items that I would not compromise with.

Regards, John.

So the VOLVO marked plugs were genuine? They didn't have any type markings; do Volvo make just one grade of plug?

Stay safe.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The good news is you didn't break a spark plug, you broke a plug. Champions are well known as simply being plugs to prevent compression escaping with no electrical qualities except maybe a short circuit to earth.

Allegedly Volvo plugs are made by Bosch, Bosch quality on the whole has gone down the tubes IMHO in recent times so the Denso plugs were a good choice.

Was the engine cold or hot when you did the compression test and did you wedge the throttle wide open and plug the fuel inlet to the carb before testing?

Usually the method i've used in the past on carb cars is to remove the fuel hose from the carb, fit an M8 bolt in it to plug the end then start the car to run out any fuel in the carb.
Then all 4 plugs out, wedge the throttle wide open (a broom is useful for this, head of broom against seat backrest, top of handle on throttle and wind the back rest forward tohold the broom in position holding the throttle down in kickdown position) then in turn fit the compression tester in each plug hole and use a remote starter button to operate the starter motor (or just a length of wire with the right terminal on the end to connect to the exciter terminal on the solenoid, jump it to battery +ve to spin the starter) and all done hot to get the correct readings.

A useful tip for the plugs is a piece of 1/4" (6mm) bore fuel hose, it fits the pip on the end perfectly and will turn the plug in or out once loosened. Very handy for refitting to avoid cross-threading - if it cross-threads the tubing slips allowing you to undo the plug again and as you feel it fall into the thread correctly while turning CCW, then turn in the correct direction to insert the plug. A refinement is a #2 Pozidriv screwdriver, the shaft is normally about 6mm diameter so fits the hose nicely and give extra reach and control.

Since i found Bosch plugs (and many other components) are no longer anywhere as good as they were 20 years ago, i've always used NGK plugs with Denso being a close second. I wouldn't use a Champion plug for reasons already stated and now rank Bosch nearer Champion than Denso!

I didn't know Champion plugs were poor - I've often used them in bikes and found them okay. I've also used Denso plugs a lot, and have found them fine, so I'll stick with them until the next change. I'll keep the Volvo set as spares.

It may be my imagination, but I think the motor runs a tad more smoothly (especially on tick-over) with the Denso plugs (compared with Champion). I could only take it for a short run (maybe 3 miles), just enough for the thermostat to cut in, but at that point the engine was ticking over smoothly at an indicated just under 1000 RPM.

Come to think of it I didn't do any of those things for the compression test Dave. I don't know why I forgot to open the throttle - so the results will be down on where they should be without a big gulp of air to start with :-)

My compression gauge has a maximum reading marker, so I can run the test from the driver's seat. I don't fancy doing it all again this afternoon, and what I have shown is that all 4 cylinders are are about the same, which is the important thing as I was only eliminating a faulty head gasket from my imaginary water loss problem.

Getting the plugs in and out is not the hardest on this car, many more bikes and much more difficult (DOHC V twins in particular), now I've done it once it would not take so long next time. I always put plugs in finger tight first so as to avoid cross threading.

I've ordered a cheap CO tester to satisfy my curiosity, but I'm pretty sure you and John are dead right and I'm just imagining a problem that isn't there regarding the cooling water. The engine doesn't use any oil, there is no emulsification, the motor starts and runs well, compression is even across the cylinders - so I think the head gasket is fine.

Stay safe.

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Othen

So the VOLVO marked plugs were genuine? They didn't have any type markings; do Volvo make just one grade of plug?

Stay safe.

They were almost certainly genuine, Alan. Volvo branded plugs are almost certainly, as 'L.S.' said, made by Bosch. I wasn't aware of the fall-off in quality of Bosch products that 'L.S.' mentions; my own experience is from back in the day when these cars were current. As to grades, I feel sure that the plugs must be graded, as in this case one 'size' most definitely does not fit all. My 145E, which was an early HC FI engine, used a much 'hotter' plug than my 'cooking' 144/145 DL cars did. I'd be surprised if there was no indication of grade on your plugs.

Volvo is a vast corporation that make, or have made, many things that you may not imagine, bottled water, for example!

Regards, John.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

So the VOLVO marked plugs were genuine? They didn't have any type markings; do Volvo make just one grade of plug?

Stay safe.

If you look on the metal part of the plug body Alan, where the "////////////" markings run round it, you should find the Volvo part number.

Originally Posted by Othen

I didn't know Champion plugs were poor - I've often used them in bikes and found them okay. I've also used Denso plugs a lot, and have found them fine, so I'll stick with them until the next change. I'll keep the Volvo set as spares.

It may be my imagination, but I think the motor runs a tad more smoothly (especially on tick-over) with the Denso plugs (compared with Champion). I could only take it for a short run (maybe 3 miles), just enough for the thermostat to cut in, but at that point the engine was ticking over smoothly at an indicated just under 1000 RPM.

Come to think of it I didn't do any of those things for the compression test Dave. I don't know why I forgot to open the throttle - so the results will be down on where they should be without a big gulp of air to start with :-)

My compression gauge has a maximum reading marker, so I can run the test from the driver's seat. I don't fancy doing it all again this afternoon, and what I have shown is that all 4 cylinders are are about the same, which is the important thing as I was only eliminating a faulty head gasket from my imaginary water loss problem.

Getting the plugs in and out is not the hardest on this car, many more bikes and much more difficult (DOHC V twins in particular), now I've done it once it would not take so long next time. I always put plugs in finger tight first so as to avoid cross threading.

I've ordered a cheap CO tester to satisfy my curiosity, but I'm pretty sure you and John are dead right and I'm just imagining a problem that isn't there regarding the cooling water. The engine doesn't use any oil, there is no emulsification, the motor starts and runs well, compression is even across the cylinders - so I think the head gasket is fine.

Stay safe.

It used to be said that 1 in 10 of Champion plugs in a trade box would misfire. These days no mechanic worth a grain of salt will even think of fitting Champions. The Denso plugs will almost certainly run better than the Champions.

You're right about the compression test results being down but there is something more worrying, copy & pasted from your post :

122/112/112/120 PSI,

Assuming you've recorded them as 1/2/3/4, #1 is 122psi, #4 is 120psi. Not bad for cold with a closed throttle.
The worrying bit is #2 and #3 are identical. Also slightly down on #1 & #4, only 8-10psi granted but i'd expect them to be different readings and a smidge closer to 120psi.
Usually if a head gasket goes weak with age, it let's go between 2-3 resulting in identical compression and the leak to the water jacket starts later but only a slight leak to start with.

When you say you've ordered a cheap CO tester, do you mean the sort that detects combustion gases in the coolant?

Seem to recall seeing in one of your posts that you're running without antifreeze until the autumn? If so, that's a false economy but before adding antifreeze, let's make sure the HG is ok.
First thing to check on that is a hot compression test as i described with the carb run out of fuel, throttle wide open etc. At the moment, the difference is about 8% down on 2 & 3, it may be more or considerably less once hot, if the difference percentage stays the same then it's probably not much to worry about but keep an eye on it.

[Stephen Edwin]

I expect all car makers sell plugs in their own brand name. In the olde days I used Champion and they worked well. However the Volvo dealer is a good starting point when buying spares.

I use Volvo plugs. I saw a picture of a sticker on a car, was it Othan's "Peasant Punt"? Approximately "Life assurance for cars, genuine Volvo parts".

It is really a good idea to find a Volvo dealer interested in older models, buy parts from them because without buyers they will fade away. A helpful dealer will find the version of Volvo plug actually suited for your car. FRF at Swansea are very good.

To stir a bit more. .... how long has Othen owned The Punt? How much work done? And now he checks the spark plugs?

I appear to have previously got up Othen's Nostrils. And probably again now. That's ok. I am happy to look kindly upon him. So far as my feeble nature can manage. Kushtie.

*****

As regards coolant leak. I sympathise. That can be a bother. Has Othen checked ALL the hoses. Those pesky heater hoses spring a little fountain of a leak. EEK. Get a "new to me car". Change the hoses, thermostat, belts especially cam belt ....

Oh yes. And why delay the antifreeze? A good antifreeze provides e.g. corrosion protection 365 days a year. Kushtie.


Comrade Stephen Edwin


.
.

[Stephen Edwin]

Interesting points from David re the compression test results.

Does an exhaust gas "sniff" in the coolant header tank reveal any exhaust gas? Maybe later ...


Comrade Stephen Edwin

.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

If you look on the metal part of the plug body Alan, where the "////////////" markings run round it, you should find the Volvo part number.


When you say you've ordered a cheap CO tester, do you mean the sort that detects combustion gases in the coolant?

Seem to recall seeing in one of your posts that you're running without antifreeze until the autumn? If so, that's a false economy but before adding antifreeze, let's make sure the HG is ok.

1. Ah, thanks - I'll have a look.

2. Yes, a sniffer test to see if there are combustion gasses getting into the coolant - and yes (to Stephen's question below) - I have tried a sniff test with my nose (no smell).

3. Using water (filtered rainwater - I harvest it for the aquarium) - that is pretty sensible until I'm sure there the system is working properly having just changed the pump. If I need to drain it for any reason it is just water. I have the coolant in the garage for when I'm happy with everything.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

I expect all car makers sell plugs in their own brand name. In the olde days I used Champion and they worked well. However the Volvo dealer is a good starting point when buying spares.

I use Volvo plugs. I saw a picture of a sticker on a car, was it Othan's "Peasant Punt"? Approximately "Life assurance for cars, genuine Volvo parts".

It is really a good idea to find a Volvo dealer interested in older models, buy parts from them because without buyers they will fade away. A helpful dealer will find the version of Volvo plug actually suited for your car. FRF at Swansea are very good.

To stir a bit more. .... how long has Othen owned The Punt? How much work done? And now he checks the spark plugs?

I appear to have previously got up Othen's Nostrils. And probably again now. That's ok. I am happy to look kindly upon him. So far as my feeble nature can manage. Kushtie.

*****

As regards coolant leak. I sympathise. That can be a bother. Has Othen checked ALL the hoses. Those pesky heater hoses spring a little fountain of a leak. EEK. Get a "new to me car". Change the hoses, thermostat, belts especially cam belt ....

Oh yes. And why delay the antifreeze? A good antifreeze provides e.g. corrosion protection 365 days a year. Kushtie.


Comrade Stephen Edwin


.
.

Comrade Stephen,

My name is 'Othen' not 'Othan' - but I think you know that. I call my car the 'Royal Barge' not the 'Peasant Punt', but of course you know that as well.

I'll just pop out to Swansea and get some new Volvo plugs in the morn then, it is only 206 miles each way. I might have to pop in to a Spar shop and buy a Mars bar so I can pretend it is an essential journey for some food.

The car came with a service receipt for oil/filter/plugs dated 18 months ago.

Ho hum.