What's the problem with electric cars?

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by tofufi

For type approval, EVs are subjected to greater scrutiny than conventional fuelled cars.

In the crash tests (front, side, side pole and rear) the vehicle voltages are checked during and after the tests to ensure there is no liklihood of humans coming into contact with anything dangerous.

The battery packs also are tested (UNECE R100 if you want some bedtime reading) and as a component will undergo the following tests before they can be used in a vehicle:

Vibration
Thermal shock and cycling
Mechanical shock
Mechanical integrity
Fire resistance
External Short circuit protection
Over discharge protection
Over temperature protection
Over-current protection
Determination of H2 emissions.

Yes, a thermal runaway is still possible, but there is an awful lot of testing to ensure the designs of these vehicles and components minimise any risk.

All the above is for type approval, which allows a vehicle to be sold in volume. Euro NCAP is completely separate.

I appreciate the time you took to write that up but it's not my actual concern. If you can still see the damage to the car in the media pictures you'll see the car is shortened by the crash and if there had been a sledge full of batteries the sledge would be compromised, all it takes with these batteries is for the two different chemistries to come together through the micro thin sheet that divides them and it's Nov 5th all over again. ICE fuel burns but not like Lithium, Lithium on fire is like a flare fire rather than a flame one.


NCAP although 90% useful doesn't cover all the bases in real scenario's, it's covers simulation but how things respond in real time is sometimes a lot different to either being slammed into a block or slammed by a block, my other gripe is what are they going to do with all the dead batteries as it's not fair on generations to come if it simply gets stored, same thing could be said of consumer electronics as well but your talking 1000x worse in a car.

[SnineT]

You know how this is going to end don't you?


The roads will resemble TCR Racing slot car sets

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364120245...wAAOSwnSFjOeeB


So we'll have lots of thin wires set into the tarmac and your car will have a dangler hanging under it to pick up the electricity, once inductive charging gets really perfected in a hostile environment then the dangler will be dispensed of and you'll get a brief top up at junctions and where congestion occurs. You read it here first.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by SnineT

I appreciate the time you took to write that up but it's not my actual concern. If you can still see the damage to the car in the media pictures you'll see the car is shortened by the crash and if there had been a sledge full of batteries the sledge would be compromised, all it takes with these batteries is for the two different chemistries to come together through the micro thin sheet that divides them and it's Nov 5th all over again. ICE fuel burns but not like Lithium, Lithium on fire is like a flare fire rather than a flame one.


NCAP although 90% useful doesn't cover all the bases in real scenario's, it's covers simulation but how things respond in real time is sometimes a lot different to either being slammed into a block or slammed by a block, my other gripe is what are they going to do with all the dead batteries as it's not fair on generations to come if it simply gets stored, same thing could be said of consumer electronics as well but your talking 1000x worse in a car.

I read somewhere that Volvo have designed a system where the battery detaches from the vehicle in a severe crash and pyro fuses disconnect it. Volvo don't seem to be very noisy about this and I'm not entirely certain it's authentic but it's the sort of thing they would do.

[SnineT]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

I read somewhere that Volvo have designed a system where the battery detaches from the vehicle in a severe crash and pyro fuses disconnect it. Volvo don't seem to be very noisy about this and I'm not entirely certain it's authentic but it's the sort of thing they would do.

It doesn't matter about detaching from the car just get one 18650 cell and whack a nail through it and stand back really fast, watch the video I linked earlier where the Russian/Ukrainian lads are destroying cell packs, if one goes the rest just chain reaction until all are burned out and they also have rifle characteristics where unrestrained they can eject quicker than a fighter pilot.

[SnineT]

I just thought of another one.


When the cars age and they're in the hands of us enthusiasts there is the chance that someone may jack the car up in the wrong place and deform the sledge, if that deformity then translates to a cell it's going to be interesting as they will have no way to stop it until the whole car is burned out, I dunno maybe that's the way to dispose of spent cells anyway. It's an extreme possibility but never say never.

[Existential Crisis]

Originally Posted by SnineT

Your seeing it as it is now Dave, now replace all cars with EV's then do the calcs on additional weight the tarmac will need to resist, it's a bit like don't take 3 cars on a weak bridge where the sign says one car at a time or the bridge will collapse.

The second quote was me having a giggle tbh, but you raise a good point I hadn't, the relation, as EV's can be very rapid combine that with 65.8% of drivers who struggle with a VW Golf to be safe and responsible, sorry Golf owners, nice and good car stained by that class of driver who used to plague the 3 Series models in the past, cutbacks eh.

You are presumeably aware of the amount of our road transport that is HGV or bus? It seems to me that people almost invent problems for EV use forgetting that EV's are in their infancy and forget the remarkable strides they have made already. Battery tech will ensure these cars become ever lighter, half the weight you refer too in cars can be found in any premium car as consumers demand toys they have been told they need by cynical marketing departments.

[tofufi]

Originally Posted by SnineT

I appreciate the time you took to write that up but it's not my actual concern. If you can still see the damage to the car in the media pictures you'll see the car is shortened by the crash and if there had been a sledge full of batteries the sledge would be compromised, all it takes with these batteries is for the two different chemistries to come together through the micro thin sheet that divides them and it's Nov 5th all over again. ICE fuel burns but not like Lithium, Lithium on fire is like a flare fire rather than a flame one.


NCAP although 90% useful doesn't cover all the bases in real scenario's, it's covers simulation but how things respond in real time is sometimes a lot different to either being slammed into a block or slammed by a block, my other gripe is what are they going to do with all the dead batteries as it's not fair on generations to come if it simply gets stored, same thing could be said of consumer electronics as well but your talking 1000x worse in a car.

Understood - the principle of the crash testing is that it covers the vast majority of impact types.

The mechanical shock and impact tests are actually performed by hitting a live battery with an impactor.

Of course, there will always be the one person in a million who manages to do something utterly stupid. But the battery and vehicle level tests show that in normal use, and everyday crash situations, an EV should be perfectly safe.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by SnineT

It doesn't matter about detaching from the car just get one 18650 cell and whack a nail through it and stand back really fast, watch the video I linked earlier where the Russian/Ukrainian lads are destroying cell packs, if one goes the rest just chain reaction until all are burned out and they also have rifle characteristics where unrestrained they can eject quicker than a fighter pilot.

I wouldn't quite agree with that - if I roll a EV I'd quite like the battery to go its own way on the first revolution. Let's ask Richard Hammond?

[Mint Cake]

Originally Posted by S60D5-185

My neighbour changes his car ( always VW or Audi ) every 18 months or so.

September 2021 he bought a new Tiguan petrol and was very happy with it.

August 2022 he decided to do his bit for the environment and got a VW ID4 which initially he extolled the virtues of.
Beginning of December there were a series of family emergencies with his kids who live and work in London so the ID4 was now required to do some long distances ( Durham City to London ) at very short notice and things turned sour very quickly as far as the ID4 was concerned.
Range anxiety, queuing for charging points, charging points not working or vandalised couple with Electricity being far more expensive and the love affair came to a grinding halt. One of the trips took nine hours through stopages and the quoted range never seems to be anywhere near accurate in real life conditions.
It was weighed in at the dealers January 2023 and he now has a new VW Hybrid. which he is far happier with it.
He can afford to chop and change but the simple fact of the matter is that all of the current and very obvious shortcomings of pure electric seem a long way off being addressed and are being conveniently ignored.

This time last year, a customer of mine bought a new Skoda Enyak and was very, very happy with it. Before he came up my way, he made sure that it was always fully charged so that he could do what he wanted to do, without worrying about charging whilst away from home (charging points are few and far between up here). A little while after getting his Enyak, he got a new contract, which meant that he had to go "down South" a couple of days a month, for a couple of day at a time. Getting 45p per mile expenses, happy days. Happy Chap with his new Enyak. In terms of range, he could get to where he needed to be, charge it up fully whilst there, then come home - but theory didn't match with reality.
If his car wasn't "topped to the brim", he found that he couldn't quite get to where he was going, so had to pull in for either a top up, or a full monty. Regardless of choice, he still needed e full charge again before he got home again. Timewise, he reckoned that each round trip took him an additional two hours at least, in charging time/trying to find a working charger etc etc. For him, the 45p per mile which seemed like the deal of all time, didn't work out anywhere near as generous, as the car charging worked out a LOT dearer than planned.
Reliability wise, the Enyak was good and only let him badly down once - a sensor had become loose/disconnected and he couldn't get a Skopda dealer to look at it for 7 working days. Initially he was carless, but after some mumbling and grumbling they came up with a loaner for him. Once they looked at the car, it was an easy fix and he was on the road again.

6 months later, he bit the bullet and PX'd his Enyak for a petrol Sportage. He really, really liked the Enyak, but he said that the range and charger infrastructure didn't work for him - looking at doing a 250 mile trip on a Fri night and knowing that it was going to take an hour longer than it needed to was the final straw.

[Fastpatsilents]

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-semi...st-look-photo/