AdBlue Critically Low - Just 3100 miles

[xsaab]

I have read reports that Adblue engine is cleaner than petrol engine.

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by jonnyf90

As I see it - it’s an addition to make a Diesel engine “cleaner” by reducing nitrous emissions?
Why not fit the same car with a small petrol turbo engine? Petrol burns “cleaner” than diesel - it may produce more CO2, but as it’s been priced, that’s better than NO2 or N2O

Cheers

But with a diesel with a particulate filter Cat an adblue SCR you get less CO2 and practically zero NO2 or N2O and a clean exhaust. So better than petrol.

I used to work in the chemical industry and we fitted SCR's to our Nitric acid plants to reduce the nox emissions (we used ammonia gas and Methane "Natural gas" not adblue) and the emissions reduction was dramatic and the exhaust stack went from a ginger plume before SCR to invisible after SCR fitted and Nox down to a few ppm.

The SCR technology is so good we could trade surplus carbon/Nox limits to other companies who could not meet the standards and make lots of money. Dont ask me how that works but its a government scheme.

[Quacker]

Originally Posted by nu11eaf

But with a diesel with a particulate filter Cat an adblue SCR you get less CO2 and practically zero NO2 or N2O and a clean exhaust. So better than petrol.

I used to work in the chemical industry and we fitted SCR's to our Nitric acid plants to reduce the nox emissions (we used ammonia gas and Methane "Natural gas" not adblue) and the emissions reduction was dramatic and the exhaust stack went from a ginger plume before SCR to invisible after SCR fitted and Nox down to a few ppm.

The SCR technology is so good we could trade surplus carbon/Nox limits to other companies who could not meet the standards and make lots of money. Dont ask me how that works but its a government scheme.

Just to expand on your post somewhat. These nitric acid plants are probably the same ones that go on to use the acid to manufacture ammonium nitrate, which is an alternative N fertiliser to [imported] urea [the only ingredient apart from water in Adblue]. These are also the factories that shut down the other day, resulting in a severe shortage of food grade carbon dioxide which hit the news big-time.

I find the back-stories and backround detail of things like this, which many people might not realise were connected, the most interesting bits of the big picture.
I think there were or are nitric acid plants in the U.K. at Ince, Cheshire. Billingham up north. Maybe elsewhere?

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by Quacker

Just to expand on your post somewhat. These nitric acid plants are probably the same ones that go on to use the acid to manufacture ammonium nitrate, which is an alternative N fertiliser to [imported] urea [the only ingredient apart from water in Adblue]. These are also the factories that shut down the other day, resulting in a severe shortage of food grade carbon dioxide which hit the news big-time.

I find the back-stories and backround detail of things like this, which many people might not realise were connected, the most interesting bits of the big picture.
I think there were or are nitric acid plants in the U.K. at Ince, Cheshire. Billingham up north. Maybe elsewhere?

A bigger picture:

I worked in the the Billingham complex and we produced Ammonia and Nitric acid and Nitram fertiliser by adding more Ammonia to the Nitric acid, in the past we used to produce Urea and many other derivitives from the initial Ammonia product as well as Sulphuric and Phosphoric acid, Sodium nitrate and Sodium nitrite.
Now only Ammonia, Nitric acid and Ammonium Nitrate (Nitram fertiliser) are produced there as well as Co2 which is a by product in the Ammonia process.

Ammonia is made by mixing and Synthesising just 3 main elements, "Methane" (in the form of natural gas) "Nitrogen" (atmospheric air) and "Hydrogen" (water in the form of high pressure steam) but the process is highly complex and very expensive involving burning lots of gas for heat and to produce 100 bar pressure steam as well as the natural feed gas used in the process, very high pressures (over 200 bar) and teperatures and many expensive catalysts. The Methane is removed from the mixed gasses during the process to leave NH3 (Ammonia).
(A very simplified explanation)

Nitric acid is produced by evaporating the liquid Ammoia to Ammonia gas and adding it to compressed filtered atmospheric air in a very controlled ratio (to avoid explosion) and passing it over a very large and expensive Platinum/Rodium catalyst to produce (NO) Nitrous oxide gas, more air is added to convert the NO to NO2 then this gas goes to an absorption tower and flows upwards through lots of seive trays, Demineralised water passes down the tower absorbing the NO2 to produce Nitric Acid (HNO3). the tail gas after going through other heat exchangers and energey recovery compressors is cleaned in a SCR before going to atmosphere. Again this is a simplified process explanation as there are a lot of other parts of the process but it is very expensive due to the catalyst electricity for compression, emission control systems etc and most of the plant has to be made from stainless steel or the acid would disolve it.

Ammonium Nitrate is produced by adding Ammonia gas to Nitric acid in a pressure vessel, this process produces a lot of heat and has to be very carefully controlled to avoid excessive heat and explosion, the Amm nit solution is concentrated in an evaporator and pumped to the top of a very high tower, it goes through a vibrating spray head ( like a very large shower head) and as the sprayed Amm nit solution falls down the empty tower it forms into round hard prills which are collected on a conveyor system and cooled before bagging. Again lots of other parts of the process and complex emission control systems.

Urea was produced by adding CO2 (which is removed from the Hydrogen gas in the Ammonia process) to Ammonia in a pressure vessel, the solution is then passed to a decomposer vessel at a much reduced low pressure and heated, it is passed on to a separator where residual Ammonia CO2 and moisture are removed, leaving Urea, Urea has more Nitrate content than any other artificial fertiliser something in the region of 48%.

All these products from Natural gas, air and water. And a lot of very clever technology to get the Nitrogen out of the air we breath into the ground for better crops.
And of course into your adblue tanks and plastics, food products, cloths and thousands of other manufactured products.

The fuman body produces Urea too
The lungs get rid of excess carbon dioxide, and the kidneys remove excess water, salts and urea.
The liver breaks down excess amino acids to make ammonia, then converts this into urea, which is less toxic in the body than ammonia.

[Bernard F]

Originally Posted by nu11eaf

A bigger picture:

I worked in the the Billingham complex and we produced Ammonia and Nitric acid and Nitram fertiliser by adding more Ammonia to the Nitric acid, in the past we used to produce Urea and many other derivitives from the initial Ammonia product as well as Sulphuric and Phosphoric acid, Sodium nitrate and Sodium nitrite.
Now only Ammonia, Nitric acid and Ammonium Nitrate (Nitram fertiliser) are produced there as well as Co2 which is a by product in the Ammonia process.

Ammonia is made by mixing and Synthesising just 3 main elements, "Methane" (in the form of natural gas) "Nitrogen" (atmospheric air) and "Hydrogen" (water in the form of high pressure steam) but the process is highly complex and very expensive involving burning lots of gas for heat and to produce 100 bar pressure steam as well as the natural feed gas used in the process, very high pressures (over 200 bar) and teperatures and many expensive catalysts. The Methane is removed from the mixed gasses during the process to leave NH3 (Ammonia).
(A very simplified explanation)

Nitric acid is produced by evaporating the liquid Ammoia to Ammonia gas and adding it to compressed filtered atmospheric air in a very controlled ratio (to avoid explosion) and passing it over a very large and expensive Platinum/Rodium catalyst to produce (NO) Nitrous oxide gas, more air is added to convert the NO to NO2 then this gas goes to an absorption tower and flows upwards through lots of seive trays, Demineralised water passes down the tower absorbing the NO2 to produce Nitric Acid (HNO3). the tail gas after going through other heat exchangers and energey recovery compressors is cleaned in a SCR before going to atmosphere. Again this is a simplified process explanation as there are a lot of other parts of the process but it is very expensive due to the catalyst electricity for compression, emission control systems etc and most of the plant has to be made from stainless steel or the acid would disolve it.

Ammonium Nitrate is produced by adding Ammonia gas to Nitric acid in a pressure vessel, this process produces a lot of heat and has to be very carefully controlled to avoid excessive heat and explosion, the Amm nit solution is concentrated in an evaporator and pumped to the top of a very high tower, it goes through a vibrating spray head ( like a very large shower head) and as the sprayed Amm nit solution falls down the empty tower it forms into round hard prills which are collected on a conveyor system and cooled before bagging. Again lots of other parts of the process and complex emission control systems.

Urea was produced by adding CO2 (which is removed from the Hydrogen gas in the Ammonia process) to Ammonia in a pressure vessel, the solution is then passed to a decomposer vessel at a much reduced low pressure and heated, it is passed on to a separator where residual Ammonia CO2 and moisture are removed, leaving Urea, Urea has more Nitrate content than any other artificial fertiliser something in the region of 48%.

All these products from Natural gas, air and water. And a lot of very clever technology to get the Nitrogen out of the air we breath into the ground for better crops.
And of course into your adblue tanks and plastics, food products, cloths and thousands of other manufactured products.

The fuman body produces Urea too
The lungs get rid of excess carbon dioxide, and the kidneys remove excess water, salts and urea.
The liver breaks down excess amino acids to make ammonia, then converts this into urea, which is less toxic in the body than ammonia.

Very interesting and fascinating insight into another industry. Thank you for taking the time.

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by Bernard F

Very interesting and fascinating insight into another industry. Thank you for taking the time.

I should have added a little about the CO2 extraction during the Ammonia process:

After the mixing and conversion of the Methane/Steam/Air to get Hydrogen and other mixed gases including CO2 (the Methane having been removed in another catalyst filled vessel) the Hydrogen rich gas passes up through an absorption tower at high pressure, the tower is filled with seive trays the same as in the Nitric acid process and a Caustic based solution is circulated through the tower flowing down through the trays absorbing the CO2 from the gas.
The high pressure solution is passed to a low pressure tower and the CO2 is released from the Caustic solution (it is like shaking a can of coke and then pulling the ring pull, the pressure drops and the CO2 shoots out) the CO2 then passed out of the top of the tower and to a gas separator where any water drops out, the CO2 is then exported, the Caustic solution is then pumped back the the absorption tower to pick up more CO2 on a continuous circulation process. The Hydrogen gas then goes to be synthesised to Ammonia. Another complex process.

[Quacker]

Although I have never been to Billingham and am born and bred in West Wales, my uncle, Bob Good, worked at ICI Billingham through the 1950's, 60's and into the early 70's when he had to retire through chronic arthritis and the high doses of cortisone that was then used to treat it.
I've no idea what he did there, but it wasn't manual work for sure. I believe that during that period the ICI complex was also involved in the atomic industry in some way, although he never mentioned that and I have no reason to believe he was involved in it. But that's getting way off topic.

Thank you for your explanation, which I'm sure fascinates many others that like the background to things they deal with every day, in this case Adblue, and the way they link up to so many other things in everyday life. Indeed with things such as their food, upon which their existence and living standards depend.

[nu11eaf]

Originally Posted by Quacker

Although I have never been to Billingham and am born and bred in West Wales, my uncle, Bob Good, worked at ICI Billingham through the 1950's, 60's and into the early 70's when he had to retire through chronic arthritis and the high doses of cortisone that was then used to treat it.
I've no idea what he did there, but it wasn't manual work for sure. I believe that during that period the ICI complex was also involved in the atomic industry in some way, although he never mentioned that and I have no reason to believe he was involved in it. But that's getting way off topic.

Thank you for your explanation, which I'm sure fascinates many others that like the background to things they deal with every day, in this case Adblue, and the way they link up to so many other things in everyday life. Indeed with things such as their food, upon which their existence and living standards depend.

I did not know your uncle as I did not start there until January 1975 and I retired in 2013.
There was indeed a research and development facility at Billingham working on the development of the A bomb,
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/new...e_atomic_bomb/