Where do you see Volvo against other marques?

[Rawas]

Build quality of the German sedans are definitely better than that of Volvos or Saabs, but remember that you are paying less and sometimes much less. You wish to call this a downgrade, may be, but I don't think that this is a valid comparison to start with, nobody I know bought a Volvo because he could not afford a Mercedes Benz!
It looks like the general consensus here is that Volvo lost it's customer satisfaction/credibility on 2 different events; once in 1994 when they moved to front wheel drive with their 850 sedan and the second when the firm was purchased by Ford in 1999, however my personal 12 years experience with an S70 2.5T (a front wheel drive car and manufactured under the ownership of Ford) proved exactly otherwise.This car was far more reliable than a lot of other European and American cars that I owned before, and they were many.
My 2008 XC90 is proving similar reliability so far.
Well, I tend to partially agree with what other members mentioned above; you definitely can spend more and buy a far more prestigious, "engineered like no other car in the world" Mercedes, and you can spend less and buy a far more reliable Toyota, one thing you won't get is the legendary safety record that Volvo achieved over the years. Volvo has the highest documented survival stories in the industry. Past and Present. Also nobody mentioned anything about the design, feel, character and presence of this fine scandinavian machine, if anybody cares!
My advise to you is simply go and get it, if you like it ,I would not hesitate a bit.

[XCeed]

Andy, there are no out-and-out winners when it comes to car choice. It's everyone to their own and most afficiandos of any marque won't be swayed from their choice.
Whatever camp you end up in, others will think your are mad!
But people really should open their mindsets and judge for themselves regardless of image, upgrades/downgrades, and preconceptions.
I have no idea where Volvo fits in regard to other marques, and I don't care. All I know is that at my last change this spring I looked at many cars and opted for the XC60 and it is far and away the best car I have ever had and the most suitable one for MY needs. My previous cars were top of the range Mercedes (two including an ML), BMWs (X5, 5 Series, 3 Series estates), and on reflection I think now they were way overpriced.
Go judge for yourself and don't get into a spin that you cannot win over image...!!!

[GMad]

Originally Posted by XCeed

Andy, there are no out-and-out winners when it comes to car choice. It's everyone to their own and most afficiandos of any marque won't be swayed from their choice.

Nail head etc

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by GMad

Volvo is not a premium brand and never has been IMO!
Personally I don't think any mass produced car is "Premium".
I think if anything Volvo has lost some, if not all of its identity in recent years, simply because they are trying to be too much like all the others. They used to be considered by all to have bullet proof reliability, be massively practical and do exactly what it says on the tin. Now though, they are another European mass produced car that is having to offer the same as every other manufacturer to compete!
UK customers seem obsesed by labels, although in the case of cars this is changing. After all ther are some damn good offerings that are very well made, safe, reliable, good looking and practical, coming from the East.
The only thing that holds them back (with some people), is the badge!

Hi GMAD.

I agree.

Ive said this elsewhere before and been slated!!!

I consider Volvos business model to be flawed. They are trying to be premium (in the branding sense).Merc et al have this premium image due to ‘branding’ and the marketing gurus. Not necessarily is a Merc better built nor more reliable than an alternative make, its just that they can charge more for the ‘perceived image’. Two drivers pull up at a business meeting, one in a base BMW 3 series tourer ,the other in a Hyundai i40 tourer. Peoples perception is that the BMW driver is more successful.

And that’s the thing its all in the perception.

Volvo is however ‘premium’ in some respects. It feels a quality product. A quality product is a premium product. For example the window switches and the electric seat switches in a Volvo XC feel more substantial and ‘premium’ than they do in a Jaguar, although which car has the ‘premium’ tag. Yup its Jaguar.

That’s the thing. There is ‘premium’ and premium.

Apart from us here aficionados and enthusiast, most people would not see Volvo up there with BMW Merc Audi ,Jag etc, hence the reason why Volvo should not be playing in the premium market.

I do believe people perceive Volvo more premium than say Hyundai, which is why Volvo should remove themselves from the ‘premium brand race’, (which it will never ever conquer) distance itself from the ‘mass market Hyundai category’ and create a ‘niche’ slightly above Hyundai although below the likes of say Merc. This it is believed would lead to an increase in sales as people may move away from the ‘mass market Hyundai category’ to the ‘sub premium’ Volvo category ,although are not prepared to stretch to the costly ‘premium category’ such as Merc. They may be however prepared to pay say 2k more for a Volvo than a Hyundai to obtain this ‘image upgrade’ but not be prepared to pay 12k more when they can ‘pre buy’ the image for the same money from say Merc.

I know some would say they would never have a Hyundai , and I am only using Hyundai as I have experience of them ,although surely what sense is there in most peoples minds in paying say 32k for a Volvo when a similar vehicle in the ‘Hyundai category’ is around 20k and offers a similar driving experience, a superior purchase package, more equipment, and a more reliable vehicle.?


Therein the problem lies.

Regards

[Volvo2002]

It's hard to say where I would rank them. I guess Semi-Premium? Volvo are somewhere in the middle..

Volvo have yet to trouble the big three. The all new S60 seems to be a very well rounded car, but car magazines still put it behind the Germans.

In the end I guess it depends on what you the consumer is looking for..

[Prufrock]

Interesting thread.

the automotive industry does not regard Volvo as a"premuim brand", it is often referred to as"sub premium".

This is a particularly difficult area(irrespective of product), and a great deal to to with marketing, but"premium"is in many ways mainstream now.

As the quality of the once premium leaders (Merc, BMW and Audi) declined, and the volume cars improved, the line became blurred: when mercedes was at the top of its game throughout the late 60s, 70s and 80s, neither BMW nor Audi came close - Audis in the 70s and early were no better or worse than re-badged VWs - Audis turnaround came with the 100 and the adoption of"Vorsprung Durch Technic".

BMW throughout the 70s and early 80s sold very few cars in the UK - compared to the last two decades - you see BMWs on every housing estate in the UK these days.

The biggest issue facing the marketing people within any organisation is how they differentiate their products; and nearly always they'll be using intangibles such as lifestyle and all that"flummery". This is because there is very little real differentiation between brands.

With the development of cost effective manufacturing technologies and the concomitant reduction in manufacturing tolerances etc, high quality goods are no longer the preserve of the better off.

Quality products are not always premium products (if you associate premium wih a high price); Heinz beans are a quality,"premium"baked bean, but affordable. A Swatch watch is extremely high quality as are Casio watches. Many high priced, premium items, are vey poorly made.

Cars generally are no longer status symbols, with ever more creative finance packages most people can afford a £20k/£25k car.

I wouldn't buy a BMW because they're common and I've had plenty of them when they weren't, and I don't like modern Mercedes. I always thought Audis were bought by people who had a high opinion of themselves - although I did have a new UR Quattro company car in 1987/88.

Excluding cars that most of us cannot afford (RR, Bentley etc) I believe the"best"car produced today in terms of objective product quality is the Lexus - whether you like them or not is irrelevant, I find myself being drawn to purchasing a GS.

That says something - probably quite a lot - about me, off my soap box now.

Prufrock.

[XCeed]

You know, so many people out there get excited about Mercs and BMs but they're not all they're cracked up to be. Think ride quality of some BM models - abysmal. Think Merc build quality - even Merc afficiandos reckon it's left a lot to be desired over latter years. (A Merc driving friend reckons that his 1990s E is "the last decent car that Merc built").
An awful lot of people I know really dislike German cars for REAL reasons (not image) ie, seats too hard, ridiculously overpriced, useless in snow...etc. My police patrol car driving nephew reckons his plod friends much prefer their SKODA to the force BMWs!!
Me, I admire people with minds of their own - who can make their own judgements on what is right for them. To get sucked into the branding/imaging game so beloved of the manufacturers and the motoring press is for mindless sheep!
I happen to think my XC60 is right for me - comfortable, spacious, airy, economical, nimble, safe and solid on the road. Others may have different priorities - so be it!

[Daim]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Interesting thread.

the automotive industry does not regard Volvo as a"premuim brand", it is often referred to as"sub premium".

This is a particularly difficult area(irrespective of product), and a great deal to to with marketing, but"premium"is in many ways mainstream now.

As the quality of the once premium leaders (Merc, BMW and Audi) declined, and the volume cars improved, the line became blurred: when mercedes was at the top of its game throughout the late 60s, 70s and 80s, neither BMW nor Audi came close - Audis in the 70s and early were no better or worse than re-badged VWs - Audis turnaround came with the 100 and the adoption of"Vorsprung Durch Technic".

BMW throughout the 70s and early 80s sold very few cars in the UK - compared to the last two decades - you see BMWs on every housing estate in the UK these days.

The biggest issue facing the marketing people within any organisation is how they differentiate their products; and nearly always they'll be using intangibles such as lifestyle and all that"flummery". This is because there is very little real differentiation between brands.

With the development of cost effective manufacturing technologies and the concomitant reduction in manufacturing tolerances etc, high quality goods are no longer the preserve of the better off.

Quality products are not always premium products (if you associate premium wih a high price); Heinz beans are a quality,"premium"baked bean, but affordable. A Swatch watch is extremely high quality as are Casio watches. Many high priced, premium items, are vey poorly made.

Cars generally are no longer status symbols, with ever more creative finance packages most people can afford a £20k/£25k car.

I wouldn't buy a BMW because they're common and I've had plenty of them when they weren't, and I don't like modern Mercedes. I always thought Audis were bought by people who had a high opinion of themselves - although I did have a new UR Quattro company car in 1987/88.

Excluding cars that most of us cannot afford (RR, Bentley etc) I believe the"best"car produced today in terms of objective product quality is the Lexus - whether you like them or not is irrelevant, I find myself being drawn to purchasing a GS.

That says something - probably quite a lot - about me, off my soap box now.

Prufrock.

Not quite that with Audi.

The reason Audi all of a sudden "exploded" has nothing to do with "Vorsprung durch Technik". More so with a fantastic PR and ad campaign in the late 80ies and throughout the 90ies.

Audi was the typical "Grandad with crocheted bog roll cover in back" car. A car for people who couldn't afford a Mercedes, a BMW or - yes - a Volvo(!) at least here in Germany. They were in their lineup equal with Ford, though Ford being a tad better.

They then forced themselves into the premium branch by firstly making some "sporty" cars. The Audi "Ur-Quattro" was basically only built, to get the Rallye Quattro into homologation. The first proper "sports Audi" were the S1 and the S4 of the 90ies. Quality slowly improved, but the TV and media ads made you think it was all better before it was. The Hamburger agency did fantastic work - and that worldwide!

Nowadays people believe that Audi has a great buildquality, which they do... For 3 years! And then the interior and exterior deteriorates quickly. And their depreciation here in Germany is rather bad. Volvo's is worse, but Audi is bad. A 4 year old Audi S8 (!) will go for say 1/10th of the original price...

VWs have less depreciation but basically the same problems. Technology problems, engine problems and other simple things, VAG (aka VW and Audi) ist/are not prepared to accept.

[Thom12]

Looking at this on the face of it i would agree they are not premium, nor run of the mill. I went for a Volvo because it was different and better than a Ford or a Vx. I think with Volvo, even now you get lot of car for your money.

Everyone talks of BMW as premium but what i premium about them? I think they look great on the outside, really fantastic but step inside on and to me they seem very cheep. It's image that has them as a premium brand and it's image that holds Volvo back.

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by Thom12

Looking at this on the face of it i would agree they are not premium, nor run of the mill. I went for a Volvo because it was different and better than a Ford or a Vx. I think with Volvo, even now you get lot of car for your money.

Everyone talks of BMW as premium but what i premium about them? I think they look great on the outside, really fantastic but step inside on and to me they seem very cheep. It's image that has them as a premium brand and it's image that holds Volvo back.

Tend to agree.

Thing with BMW is that they have somehow got to 'premium status'

They are however exceedingly good cars to drive in every area, from handling,to performance,to emissions,to economy,to braking to perceived image.

Problem is they are more common than Fords and (using a word from another member) people that buy them appear to be 'sheeple' (oh and they are a council estate persons favourite!) - no disrespect to people that live on a council estate as we have one as well in the family!!)

Regards