Intermittent White Smoke S60 D5 185 Engine - Page 2

v_matt_v · Jul 14th, 2010, 22:05

That sounds like a rip off. Whenever you go to either independent or volvo dealer ask for the parts they've replaced. This way will know that they replaced what they should and also you can ask them to show you where the component failed.
I'm not sure how the EGR looks in 185bhp D5 but it's possible that they damaged the diaphram when they were cleaning the EGR.

Does this problem appears constantly or only for some time when the engine is cold?
Have you noticed if the MPG dropped? Do you get any message on the dash when it happenes?

The leaking injector might be casuing your problems and this should be sorted by volvo.

Have either dealer or independent garage checked the condition of the coolant? Is the level low? Is there any oil in it? The coolant might be getting into the cylinders (head gasket sealing problem) or possibly even to EGR valve.

The other thing to check would be turbo. It might be leaking oil.

Bill_56 · Jul 14th, 2010, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by v_matt_v

That sounds like a rip off. Whenever you go to either independent or volvo dealer ask for the parts they've replaced. This way will know that they replaced what they should and also you can ask them to show you where the component failed.
I'm not sure how the EGR looks in 185bhp D5 but it's possible that they damaged the diaphram when they were cleaning the EGR.

Does this problem appears constantly or only for some time when the engine is cold?
Have you noticed if the MPG dropped? Do you get any message on the dash when it happenes?

The leaking injector might be casuing your problems and this should be sorted by volvo.

Have either dealer or independent garage checked the condition of the coolant? Is the level low? Is there any oil in it? The coolant might be getting into the cylinders (head gasket sealing problem) or possibly even to EGR valve.

The other thing to check would be turbo. It might be leaking oil.

Hi Matt, thanks for all of that - you're clearly much more clued up than I am. I hope you'll be as generous with advice if I ever need it myself.

The only thing I don't get is how would these problems be triggered by a software upgrade? Or are you assuming the software upgrade would be pure co-incidence, despite the fact it's how the thread began?

definethelight · Jul 15th, 2010, 06:19

HI Bill,
Thanks again for your comments. The Master Cylinder was indeed an unrelated issue, and did account for around £650 worth of work. (8hrs at £45/hr) very reasonable compared to main dealer prices. I shall speak to the main dealer again today and arrange a time to bring the car to them for more testing. I agree that this all sounds so coincidental. The car was perfect until the recent 'upgrade'. I too come from an engineering background - and this makes me skeptical about Volvo's attitude. Perhaps there are fewer high mileage cars going back to main dealers - out of warranty, and therefore won't be receiving this recent update through their independents. I may be barking up the wrong tree with that one. I managed to video the smoking (all be it just a small puff) last night. I shall go to Volvo armed with that. It does illustrate the rattling sound as the smoke is emitted. I'll keep you updated with any progress/comment from the main dealer. Cheers Scott.

definethelight · Jul 15th, 2010, 18:25

Hi Matt,

Thank you for joining in the discussion. And indeed for your suggestion. In answer to your questions, The fault seems to be there when the engine is warm/hot. I have generally driven it to the point where the temp reaches 'Normal - warmed up' before the rattle and smoke appears. The MPG may have dropped a couple of miles from what I normally return. Its on around 37mpg at the moment. That may be attributed to the heavy driving the independent gave it trying to replicate the problem. I didn't get a chance to call the Volvo main dealer today as planned, but shall be on to them 1st thing tomorrow. I'll explain some of the suggestions made here, and hope that someone has an idea what the problem is. My guess is that they will test it again and again, then start randomly replacing parts! This is proving to be an expensive exercise. Interesting point about the diaphragm being damaged during the clean... Didn't cross my mind. That was an £88 part! All adds up. Funny thing, there was no mention of the DPF on the paperwork. Wonder if my car even has such a thing? It's a 55 plate. Thanks again for your comments. Scott.

definethelight · Jul 15th, 2010, 18:28

Matt, sorry - forgot to mention, when the car smokes, it rattles (kind of a rasping sound that lasts a second at the most) and the car judders - slight power loss. The smoke is bluish white, and there are no errors on the dash either during or after the event. Cheers Scott.

Bernard333 · Jul 16th, 2010, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by definethelight

Hi Matt,

there was no mention of the DPF on the paperwork. Wonder if my car even has such a thing? It's a 55 plate. Thanks again for your comments. Scott.

Scott , you do have a dpf and reading the posts so far have changed my mind about the turbo , I have turbos on the brain at the moment so naturally assume any fault on any car is caused by the turbo but apparently Garrett turbos are very reliable when fitted to Volvos , its when they fit them to Ford Galaxies they dont last very long . The white smoke was the reason I thought it might be the turbo but when they are that stage there is no going back and complete failure happens quickly . Reading the posts so far and quite a few others on the dpf has put me off buying a 185 D5 engined car completely . I agree with Bill56 it does seem too much of a coincidence regarding the software and I wonder if this could be the start of a serious problem coming out in the wash as it were . Also what Matt is saying could be right as well but you would think a main dealer would have no problem tracing an injector fault or cylinder head issue and if they found this they would be quick to tell you as its another £1000 job they can charge you for .

Bill_56 · Jul 16th, 2010, 00:58

Scott,

If you do feel that the software upgrade was probably the root cause of the problems, I've had one idea that may get Volvo to be more attentive...

...There was a phone-in program on the radio at lunchtime discussing anti-social parking, and a lady caller was describing VOSA to the presenter, who couldn't understand how it differed from DVLA. Eventually the presenter cried 'AHA, SO VOSA IS THE PARAMILITARY WING OF DVLA?'. Very amusing.

The point is, VOSA do have clout, and you could try contacting VOSA and asking if they had any interest in the possibility that Volvo's software upgrade had adversely affected your emissions. It could backfire, as VOSA could tell you they don't care what caused it, but to get your smokey car off the road. In that case, however it would come up at MOT time anyway, so arguably you'd be better off telling them up-front, but don't blame me either way.

Volvo may or may not be fobbing us all off, I'm as paranoid as the next person. But I doubt whether Volvo would get away for long with fobbing off VOSA.

Visit http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa if interested in that suggestion.

- Bill

PS: The 'fly in the ointment' is the rattling sound. I don't have any theories how that could be related to the software upgrade. Did it also start with the software upgrade?

definethelight · Jul 16th, 2010, 17:51

Hi Guys, Thank you for your continued support and ideas. Much appreciated! The car goes back to the Main dealer on Tuesday. I called them today, and explained that I had taken it to an independent. They recognised him as a good Volvo trained tech. They still reckon on road testing the car to establish where the source of the smoke is coming from. The service manager insists my car does not have a DPF fitted. He said to be sure, he would check the Chassis number. (but didn't - at least not during the conversation). I told them I had filmed the rattle and smoke, and that I'd show them on Tuesday. Volvo dismissed the Injector leak off as being a possible cause of the smoking or rattling. The rattle sounds to me like a 'pre-ignition'? You get the rattle - then the smoke. The slight delay must be the smoke traveling along the length of the exhaust system. Volvo did not dismiss the Turbo being at fault, but like Bernard said, they tend to be reliable. When quizzed about the software upgrade, the service manager didn't dismiss this, and said they would certainly look at all possibilities. It's a bit of a waiting game this one...

rublehousen · Jul 16th, 2010, 20:15

PS: The 'fly in the ointment' is the rattling sound. I don't have any theories how that could be related to the software upgrade. Did it also start with the software upgrade?

i dont know about DPFs, or what the software upgrade consists of, but the two being related does sound feasible from what ive read on this forum. i believe a turbo leaking oil into the exhaust would produce blue smoke not white. white smoke is produced by unburnt diesel. (possibly from this DPF set up,from what ive read on how the system works) another cause of white smoke could be unburnt diesel due to incomplete combustion, for example a sticking valve causing loss of compression,thus loss of complete combustion, this could account for the rasping noise as well as loss of power. ive known valves intermittantly stick due to carbon build up before, no personal experiences on your type of engine though. just thought id add my two pence.... ;-)

Bernard333 · Jul 16th, 2010, 20:17

Heres a thread you may already have read and its worth reading if not :

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...t=81813&page=2

I was under the impression all 185 bhp euro 4 D5 engines had a dpf but now I am not as sure as I was an hour ago , perhaps its some of the other emmisions control gear thats causing the poor fuel consumption on these ?

Jul 14th, 2010, 22:05	#11
v_matt_v Volvo Fan Last Online: Jul 27th, 2023 23:35 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Edinburgh View Photos By: v_matt_v	That sounds like a rip off. Whenever you go to either independent or volvo dealer ask for the parts they've replaced. This way will know that they replaced what they should and also you can ask them to show you where the component failed. I'm not sure how the EGR looks in 185bhp D5 but it's possible that they damaged the diaphram when they were cleaning the EGR. Does this problem appears constantly or only for some time when the engine is cold? Have you noticed if the MPG dropped? Do you get any message on the dash when it happenes? The leaking injector might be casuing your problems and this should be sorted by volvo. Have either dealer or independent garage checked the condition of the coolant? Is the level low? Is there any oil in it? The coolant might be getting into the cylinders (head gasket sealing problem) or possibly even to EGR valve. The other thing to check would be turbo. It might be leaking oil.

Jul 15th, 2010, 06:19	#13
definethelight New Member Last Online: Apr 1st, 2011 09:29 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Winchester	HI Bill, Thanks again for your comments. The Master Cylinder was indeed an unrelated issue, and did account for around £650 worth of work. (8hrs at £45/hr) very reasonable compared to main dealer prices. I shall speak to the main dealer again today and arrange a time to bring the car to them for more testing. I agree that this all sounds so coincidental. The car was perfect until the recent 'upgrade'. I too come from an engineering background - and this makes me skeptical about Volvo's attitude. Perhaps there are fewer high mileage cars going back to main dealers - out of warranty, and therefore won't be receiving this recent update through their independents. I may be barking up the wrong tree with that one. I managed to video the smoking (all be it just a small puff) last night. I shall go to Volvo armed with that. It does illustrate the rattling sound as the smoke is emitted. I'll keep you updated with any progress/comment from the main dealer. Cheers Scott.

Jul 15th, 2010, 18:25	#14
definethelight New Member Last Online: Apr 1st, 2011 09:29 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Winchester	Hi Matt, Thank you for joining in the discussion. And indeed for your suggestion. In answer to your questions, The fault seems to be there when the engine is warm/hot. I have generally driven it to the point where the temp reaches 'Normal - warmed up' before the rattle and smoke appears. The MPG may have dropped a couple of miles from what I normally return. Its on around 37mpg at the moment. That may be attributed to the heavy driving the independent gave it trying to replicate the problem. I didn't get a chance to call the Volvo main dealer today as planned, but shall be on to them 1st thing tomorrow. I'll explain some of the suggestions made here, and hope that someone has an idea what the problem is. My guess is that they will test it again and again, then start randomly replacing parts! This is proving to be an expensive exercise. Interesting point about the diaphragm being damaged during the clean... Didn't cross my mind. That was an £88 part! All adds up. Funny thing, there was no mention of the DPF on the paperwork. Wonder if my car even has such a thing? It's a 55 plate. Thanks again for your comments. Scott.

Jul 15th, 2010, 18:28	#15
definethelight New Member Last Online: Apr 1st, 2011 09:29 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Winchester	Matt, sorry - forgot to mention, when the car smokes, it rattles (kind of a rasping sound that lasts a second at the most) and the car judders - slight power loss. The smoke is bluish white, and there are no errors on the dash either during or after the event. Cheers Scott.

Jul 16th, 2010, 00:58	#17
Bill_56 Premier Member Last Online: Oct 29th, 2021 23:58 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Over the hill	Scott, If you do feel that the software upgrade was probably the root cause of the problems, I've had one idea that may get Volvo to be more attentive... ...There was a phone-in program on the radio at lunchtime discussing anti-social parking, and a lady caller was describing VOSA to the presenter, who couldn't understand how it differed from DVLA. Eventually the presenter cried 'AHA, SO VOSA IS THE PARAMILITARY WING OF DVLA?'. Very amusing. The point is, VOSA do have clout, and you could try contacting VOSA and asking if they had any interest in the possibility that Volvo's software upgrade had adversely affected your emissions. It could backfire, as VOSA could tell you they don't care what caused it, but to get your smokey car off the road. In that case, however it would come up at MOT time anyway, so arguably you'd be better off telling them up-front, but don't blame me either way. Volvo may or may not be fobbing us all off, I'm as paranoid as the next person. But I doubt whether Volvo would get away for long with fobbing off VOSA. Visit http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa if interested in that suggestion. - Bill PS: The 'fly in the ointment' is the rattling sound. I don't have any theories how that could be related to the software upgrade. Did it also start with the software upgrade?

Jul 16th, 2010, 17:51	#18
definethelight New Member Last Online: Apr 1st, 2011 09:29 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Winchester	Hi Guys, Thank you for your continued support and ideas. Much appreciated! The car goes back to the Main dealer on Tuesday. I called them today, and explained that I had taken it to an independent. They recognised him as a good Volvo trained tech. They still reckon on road testing the car to establish where the source of the smoke is coming from. The service manager insists my car does not have a DPF fitted. He said to be sure, he would check the Chassis number. (but didn't - at least not during the conversation). I told them I had filmed the rattle and smoke, and that I'd show them on Tuesday. Volvo dismissed the Injector leak off as being a possible cause of the smoking or rattling. The rattle sounds to me like a 'pre-ignition'? You get the rattle - then the smoke. The slight delay must be the smoke traveling along the length of the exhaust system. Volvo did not dismiss the Turbo being at fault, but like Bernard said, they tend to be reliable. When quizzed about the software upgrade, the service manager didn't dismiss this, and said they would certainly look at all possibilities. It's a bit of a waiting game this one...

Jul 16th, 2010, 20:15	#19
rublehousen Senior Member Last Online: Nov 6th, 2018 10:16 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: stockton	PS: The 'fly in the ointment' is the rattling sound. I don't have any theories how that could be related to the software upgrade. Did it also start with the software upgrade? i dont know about DPFs, or what the software upgrade consists of, but the two being related does sound feasible from what ive read on this forum. i believe a turbo leaking oil into the exhaust would produce blue smoke not white. white smoke is produced by unburnt diesel. (possibly from this DPF set up,from what ive read on how the system works) another cause of white smoke could be unburnt diesel due to incomplete combustion, for example a sticking valve causing loss of compression,thus loss of complete combustion, this could account for the rasping noise as well as loss of power. ive known valves intermittantly stick due to carbon build up before, no personal experiences on your type of engine though. just thought id add my two pence.... ;-)

Jul 16th, 2010, 20:17	#20
Bernard333 Premier Member Last Online: Oct 20th, 2021 11:41 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ramelton	Heres a thread you may already have read and its worth reading if not : http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...t=81813&page=2 I was under the impression all 185 bhp euro 4 D5 engines had a dpf but now I am not as sure as I was an hour ago , perhaps its some of the other emmisions control gear thats causing the poor fuel consumption on these ?

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