Vauxhall

[Prufrock]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Very true, Jon. You will no doubt also be aware that this is common practice in the motor industry, i.e. to have a 'core' staff and to also employ the services of contractors as necessary. The latter are a 'tap' that can turned on and off on as required to suit the fluctuating demands of production. This is simply market forces at work. It is when the core staff is reduced, with no immediate prospect of re-engagement, that we should be concerned.

It is a system that works well, and I do not speak without personal experience. Personally, I think that since Ratan Tata took over the company, JLR have gone from strength to strength to become rightly a world-class organisation. Tata is an inspiring man, and yes, I have heard him speak.

Regards, John.

Whilst not wishing to be churlish, I'm afraid this reply will be. John, your comments while valid are a little dated, just simply citing market forces is a rather bland comment as the UK auto retailing sector and the global auto manufacturing sector are facing great changes (headwinds is the latest phrase) - I prefer paradigm shift.

JLR have enjoyed great success since the Tata takeover, I personally first encountered the Tata company in the mid 1990s when Tata were building old model Mercedes trucks under license and some of their light commercials were imported into the UK by MVI (an Inchcape company).

However as far as the UK and Europe are concerned JLR have missed a trick since dieselgate (many saw that coming), in that they could have brought petrol engined models to market quite easily as these are what is offered in the USA by LR.

Finally, despite the success of JLR they are still unable to engineer quality into their products - they are among the least reliable in their respective sectors. Last time I visited JLR at Solihull was during the final phase of Defender production (as a guest of the Production Director).

Jon.

[biggbn]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

There's no mumbo jumbo, what Vauxhall are proposing is commonplace in the automotive sector. The only mumbo jumbo is your neoliberal capitalism...Darwinian economics comment...biggbn you sound like a JuJu man !!!

I would have thought with your social conscience (!) you might have commented on the rather more newsworthy fact that JLR (JaguarLandRover) are cutting 1000 jobs and have already cut production of Evoque and Discovery Sport.

For example, JLRs sales have dropped by 26% in the UK and 32% in Germany (the volume in Germany is far greater in it's impact). JLRs decision is due to a combination of factors (like Vauxhalls) that includes the decline in diesel sales and Brexit fears.

Jon.

N.B perhaps my previous automotive comments have been too nuanced for you ?

I have genuinely misunderstood the article, and still do not understand the premise behind it unless it is for the fiscal reasons I alluded to in my own mambo jumbo!

I did not comment on the jlr job losses as I will not comment on any topic with potential political leanings as they end up spiralling out of control and the usual culprits end up chipping in with their thinly veiled personal innuendo, which rapidly becomes tiresome. I thought it safe to comment on this as a perceived it as a sad chapter in a great automotive company's history. It appears I am simultaneously wrong and right about this?

Going back to my Darwinian economics statement, and hoping not to tread into murky political ground, survival of those with the greatest fiscal probibity is certainly the order of the day, and one can argue if companies are inneficient,,badly run or produce non competitive goods, collapse is always a tap on the shoulder away. Yes, there is much more to it than that with government grants, bail out etc but look at the carillon debacle, no company should have been bailed out with public money again and again because of its inherent diseconomies of scale. My juju man statement was an enquiry, towards yourself Jon as I.kmow you have insider knowledge as it were, about why Vauxhall were choosing/being forced to take this decision, a question I am still interested in the answer too? Cheers all, a bit dim some days..

[Prufrock]

I often Captain the Dim Team, so no worries on that front !

In my view it was inevitable that Vauxhall would begin this process of re-evaluating the dealer network given that PSA are the new chargemasters. As mentioned the automotive sector takes this course frequently and the way it is always done is by terminating contracts and requiring dealer's reapply for the franchise.

And yes, it is a way to fillet out poor dealers, those that cannot meet new and challenging standards. Traditionally manufacturers in the sector have not chosen forward integration (i.e owning retail outlets) so their control over retailers is tenuous at best - especially given the power of the large groups (there are parallels with food retail here).

One good example of forward integration is Peugeot (coincidentally), and they own the retailer Robins and Day.

Hope this helps.

Jon.

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Whilst not wishing to be churlish, I'm afraid this reply will be. John, your comments while valid are a little dated, just simply citing market forces is a rather bland comment as the UK auto retailing sector and the global auto manufacturing sector are facing great changes (headwinds is the latest phrase) - I prefer paradigm shift. .....

..... Last time I visited JLR at Solihull was during the final phase of Defender production (as a guest of the Production Director).

Jon.

Not churlish in the least, Jon, and I fully accept that my impressions may well be dated, as I was last there at about the same time - looking at method improvements on the Defender line, as it happens!

Time moves on, and perhaps I am now more out of touch than I thought, but that does not in any way diminish my respect for Tata. He is a man of high business ethics, and I believe the company to be well placed to weather an economic downturn - but that is a personal opinion and I accept that yours may well be more valid (edit: please read 'informed') in today's climate. Time will tell!

Regards, John.

[GreenBrick]

With JLR putting so much investment into what I would call "Fashion" vehicles like Evokes and the like, they will have always known they were taking a risk, i.e. if fashions change.

In my opinion (and hopes mainly) many owners of large diesel cars are probably starting to get a little bit of a conscience and are replacing them with more appropriate vehicles.

On a very personal opinion note (so feel free to skip the next few lines), one of the most ridiculous cars I have ever seen was a white convertible Evoke in our village. A convertible SUV just shows who JLR are pandering to. Just because you can do something (like silly animated indicators on Audis) doesn't mean you should.

I used to do work for Jaguar on their end of line test equipment and really rated them, but to produce such a frivolous vehicle has seriously damaged my opinion of them.

[Grimble]

Originally Posted by GreenBrick

With JLR putting so much investment into what I would call "Fashion" vehicles like Evokes and the like, they will have always known they were taking a risk, i.e. if fashions change.

In my opinion (and hopes mainly) many owners of large diesel cars are probably starting to get a little bit of a conscience and are replacing them with more appropriate vehicles.

On a very personal opinion note (so feel free to skip the next few lines), one of the most ridiculous cars I have ever seen was a white convertible Evoke in our village. A convertible SUV just shows who JLR are pandering to. Just because you can do something (like silly animated indicators on Audis) doesn't mean you should.

I used to do work for Jaguar on their end of line test equipment and really rated them, but to produce such a frivolous vehicle has seriously damaged my opinion of them.

Cant wait for owners of large diesel cars to start to sell in large numbers, should depress market prices enough so that I can afford a better second hand one than otherwise.

Your logic above would mean an end to all supercars. Or am I missing something?

[green van man]

I'm keeping my large diesels, the Volvo is not yet run in even and the landrover on 200k is loosening up nicely.

This year it's diesels next it will be petrol because the Co2 is going off the scale.

Paul.

[phil1968]

Hmm... does anyone remember when Hillman became Chrysler & then Chrysler got absorbed into the PSA group & then ceased to exist as a marque in Europe? Simca went the same way...

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by phil1968

Hmm... does anyone remember when Hillman became Chrysler & then Chrysler got absorbed into the PSA group & then ceased to exist as a marque in Europe? Simca went the same way...

Yes, but it was ever thus, 'phil1968'. The number of small manufacturers (assemblers) was legion in the early days of motoring, up to and including the 'twenties. The depression of the 'thirties saw a lot off, and post WW2 we saw the formation of BMC, later BL. Where are Austin, Morris, Wolseley, Riley et.al. now?

Regards, John.

[green van man]

Originally Posted by phil1968

Hmm... does anyone remember when Hillman became Chrysler & then Chrysler got absorbed into the PSA group & then ceased to exist as a marque in Europe? Simca went the same way...

It wasn't just Hillman though was it. Humber, Singer, Hillman all became part of the roots group, just as Morris, Austin, Riley, Wolsey all became BMC. Badge engineered lowest common denominator.

Paul.