Highways Agency Officers - rules of engagement ?

[NigelDay]

I was driving up the A1 in North Yorkshire on Monday afternoon. The rain and visibility were not good. The overhead gantries were displaying a 50 mph 'red' limit. OK, that's fine, and the traffic slowed accordingly. However, I then noticed flashing lights ahead. Not blue, but red and orange. It looked at first as if it was an abnormal load convoy vehicle, but as I gradually got closer it became obvious it was a Highways Agency vehicle. Then -- and this is the frustration -- the Highways Agency vehicle decided he would go slower and slower (but the weather had not got any worse, nor had the gantries changed from 50 mph) until the traffic had reduced speed to below 30 mph. In my opinion this was a dangerous and unnecessary manoeuvre. Clearly the traffic immediately behind the Highways Agency vehicle was not prepared to overtake (but legally I think they could have done, provided they did not exceed 50 mph).
So the question is, are Highways Agency Officers entitled to 'attempt' to force a speed limit lower than the official gantry signs (which, one might assume, are legally assigned from a central control room).
My concern is that the actions of the Officers on that afternoon were actually dangerous by using unnecessary 'bunching' of vehicles in the tailback behind. What do others think ?

[DaveNP]

They may well have been doing a rolling road block to make a gap in the traffic to enable another 'officer' further up the road to run out and clear an obstruction, if bringing it down to 30 was 'dangerous' putting in a full stop a mile further up would have been worse.

[MikeGMT]

Quiet an interesting question Nigel. I can't give a definitive answer, but I do know that whilst they do not have the same powers as the police they can stop, and also 'manage' traffic in certain situations such as adverse weather. Of course their view of what adverse conditions are maybe different to someone else's.
Were they conducting a 'rolling road block?' If that was the case then usually along with the flashing lights normally a variable message sign (VMS) is displayed with 'Do Not Pass' or some such. If that was the case then it is illegal to pass even though a higher limit was displayed and they can report it as an offence.
As the 'HATO's are in contact with central control, as David mentioned above, perhaps something further ahead may have happened and the overhead signs may have not yet been activated!
Another thought, were they in a 'dominant' position on the road so they were obviously wanting drivers to comply with them, or just tootling along in lane 1?

+ "Rolling Road Block" via YouTube

[GrahamBrown1]

Seen this many times before. It’s not the highways people that annoy me at least they were probably clearing an obstruction or there was a reason.

What really gets me is the gantry speed limits going from 60 to 50 then back to 60 and then to 40! With a sign report of obstruction. The thing is there never is one the road is perfectly clear! Yet on Wednesday I hit a massive strip of metal in lane 1 and was there any warning signs illuminated....... No! No time or space to move out the way as the car in front dodged it at last minute. No damage done but my van flicked it up and if anyone was behind it probs would have gone through there screen!

[AndyJudge]

Originally Posted by GrahamBrown1

Seen this many times before. It’s not the highways people that annoy me at least they were probably clearing an obstruction or there was a reason.

What really gets me is the gantry speed limits going from 60 to 50 then back to 60 and then to 40! With a sign report of obstruction. The thing is there never is one the road is perfectly clear! Yet on Wednesday I hit a massive strip of metal in lane 1 and was there any warning signs illuminated....... No! No time or space to move out the way as the car in front dodged it at last minute. No damage done but my van flicked it up and if anyone was behind it probs would have gone through there screen!

Yep driving up & down the A1 the other weekend.

So Saturday Morning about 06:30 in North Yorks

50mph on the signs - Caution Queue Ahead for must have been 5+ Miles

I counted in view both to the Front & Rear 8 other vehicles in that whole distance not a queue anywhere in sight.

Then travelling back up again around Leeds

30mph on the signs - Slow Livestock in the Road for 5 Miles then a break then another 5 odd miles.

Was there anything in the road - Nope Nada not a thing not even any traffic wombles or police to indicate there ever may have been.

[dcw]

Originally Posted by NigelDay

I was driving up the A1 in North Yorkshire on Monday afternoon. The rain and visibility were not good. The overhead gantries were displaying a 50 mph 'red' limit. OK, that's fine, and the traffic slowed accordingly. However, I then noticed flashing lights ahead. Not blue, but red and orange. It looked at first as if it was an abnormal load convoy vehicle, but as I gradually got closer it became obvious it was a Highways Agency vehicle. Then -- and this is the frustration -- the Highways Agency vehicle decided he would go slower and slower (but the weather had not got any worse, nor had the gantries changed from 50 mph) until the traffic had reduced speed to below 30 mph. In my opinion this was a dangerous and unnecessary manoeuvre. Clearly the traffic immediately behind the Highways Agency vehicle was not prepared to overtake (but legally I think they could have done, provided they did not exceed 50 mph).
So the question is, are Highways Agency Officers entitled to 'attempt' to force a speed limit lower than the official gantry signs (which, one might assume, are legally assigned from a central control room).
My concern is that the actions of the Officers on that afternoon were actually dangerous by using unnecessary 'bunching' of vehicles in the tailback behind. What do others think ?

The weather may well be a complete red herring. Highways Officers have powers to manage the traffic and in appropriate circumstances they can impose a rolling roadblock eg to remove an obstruction. That is probably what was happening here. As has been said here if that is the case you would normally expect their vehicle to be prominent in the middle of the road and displaying a "do not pass" message, although waving arms out of windows to slow traffic down is legitimate.

The gantry systems are often slow to respond to situations and often do odd things as described in this thread - I had this yesterday on the M62 50, then 60, then 50, on alternate gantries. The HO's have sufficient powers to deal with ad hoc situations; the knock on effect of using the gantries can be far more major...

Don't want to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but just because the speed limit is 50 doesn't necessarily entitle you to do 50 - it can be overridden by those in authority. You probably don't mean to suggest that, but your post could be read that way. You suggest the action here was dangerous but I doubt they did it for no good reason, just a reason not known to you. Would you have felt the same had it been a police car? You may well have been saved from driving straight into a piece of a lorry, for example, but since they officers did their job and risked walking on the motorway to remove it, you'll never know...

David

[Dirty Rooster]

Originally Posted by NigelDay

...So the question is, are Highways Agency Officers entitled to 'attempt' to force a speed limit lower than the official gantry signs (which, one might assume, are legally assigned from a central control room).
My concern is that the actions of the Officers on that afternoon were actually dangerous by using unnecessary 'bunching' of vehicles in the tailback behind. What do others think ?

I just assume the Agency drivers are far more up to date on the situation than the robot brains in the gantry signage ... or the muppets on the controls back at base.
Ignore the gantry, stick with the Agency vehicle's actions.

[steadvex]

I was quite annoyed at a highways agency vehicle before, went to overtake, no overtake sign came on and pulled in behind.

The worst thing with these situations is the way everyone constantly bunches up and tries to push each other along, I envision a huge pileup due to people not being able to keep a safe distance, in this instance for myself whilst I was cursing away having no clue what's going on it became clear what was happened.

Someone's canoe must of come off a roof rack/trailer as it was upside down across lane 2 & 3 just after the brow of a hill on a busy section of motorway, had they not slowed us down it's clear to see that could of been bad!

I would be surprised if they are slowing traffic for no good reason, from my experience there is always an obstruction or a nasty accident

[tt82]

Originally Posted by NigelDay

So the question is, are Highways Agency Officers entitled to 'attempt' to force a speed limit lower than the official gantry signs (which, one might assume, are legally assigned from a central control room).

Check your highway code - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high...orised-persons

They have the full legal right to stop traffic and enforce diversions. That doesn;t mean they aren't open to abusing their powers but as other have probably said, they were probably managing an incident further up the road and the fact you were none the wiser is probably credit to the good job they did.

Whilst the overhead gantry signs can be frustrating as the show incorrect info for the majority of time and the traffic 'wombles' can occasionally be frustrating, they do a dangerous job. A job which has resulted in deaths - https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...hways-14179188 - so don't be too quick to complain when they are there making the roads safer for all of us.

[hennabm]

HA staff do have powers to stop so driving past them if they are telling you not to is an offence.

As others have said the chances are the weather may not have been the problem.

What gets me with them is that they generally drive at 50 mph causing traffic jams as the trucks have to pull out to overtake them and all that causes. To me they should travel at the same speed as the trucks at least.