Banning of Mobile Phone Use in Cars

[domhart10]

Originally Posted by canis

I still believe the real enemy isn't being addressed. It's not the fault of the phone, the driver, or anything else.

Let me paint you a picture...

It starts to rain. You want to put on the wipers. The switch for them is beind a flap, in a cupboard, and the cupboard has a combination lock. This would be stupid, no?

So you get an electronic interface - of any nature - with what is called a "modal interface". This means that some controls are available to you while others are not, depending on the current mode. The controls are often in menu systems, usually within other submenus. This is called "nesting".

THESE are the real dangers. It doens't matter whether it's a mobile phone or the utterly bizarre touchscreen controls in modern cars, the INTERFACE is impossible to operate without a two-way communication between driver and device. You want to alter something, first you gotta get in the right mode. That means you need to know which mode you're already in. Then you've got to get your way out of it, back the the top of the mode "tree" (home?), then you've got to make your way to the relevant submenu, and not make any mistakes along the way. This means checking your input hasbeen recieved and acted upon.

Apply this again to the wipers analagy; It's raining, you throw the stalk to wipe the windscreen. The wipers don't seem to be operating, you look down to see why - blow me, the bloody headlamps are on now instead. You switch the headlamps off - except it's not that easy, another modal system, you have to scroll through several different lighting types until you finally reach 'off'. Mind the bike! Oh now look, you've gone right through 'off', now you've got to go around again. Finally you get the headlamps off - and you still haven't got the wipers on yet.

This is EXACTLY the type of thought processes needed to operate a modal interface in such systems as satnavs, telephones, etc. And this is why they're so dangerous as compared to a CB radio which is simply press to talk for the most part.

The legislation should be attacking the interface design. There's nothing essentially wrong with a modal system of interface, nor menu driven options, except there is too much mental overhead whilst driving.

I would profer the legislation should be insisting that driver interfaces be not modal, and not menu driven. Everything on the front page - or forget it. Full-stop.

Sorry I dont agree with that at all? so the main fault is the interface on the car? its a bit worrying if you are getting into cars and trying to find out how the car works while driving a long ... you should of done this before driving on the road.

As with anything you need to familiarize yourself before operating it so you know where things are when you need them and you dont become a liability when removing your attention from the road.

The driver is the only problem, workman never blames his tools. Need better safety education not protocols as well as a more robust test.

[canis]

Originally Posted by domhart10

Sorry I dont agree with that at all? so the main fault is the interface on the car? its a bit worrying if you are getting into cars and trying to find out how the car works while driving a long ... you should of done this before driving on the road.

As with anything you need to familiarize yourself before operating it so you know where things are when you need them and you dont become a liability when removing your attention from the road.

The driver is the only problem, workman never blames his tools. Need better safety education not protocols as well as a more robust test.

You've completely missed the point, and that might be my fault. I'll try to explain better because I agree with you, the driver should familiarise himself with the controls.

The fault is that the controls require feedback. When you throw a physical switch or pull a lever or whatever - you know you've done it. With an electronic modal interface, the only way you can know if you've done it is by looking at it, which takes a lot more concentration. Naviugating your way through a system of menus nested several layers deep is a much more intensive exercise than throwing a switch.

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by canis

You've completely missed the point, and that might be my fault. I'll try to explain better because I agree with you, the driver should familiarise himself with the controls.

The fault is that the controls require feedback. When you throw a physical switch or pull a lever or whatever - you know you've done it. With an electronic modal interface, the only way you can know if you've done it is by looking at it, which takes a lot more concentration. Naviugating your way through a system of menus nested several layers deep is a much more intensive exercise than throwing a switch.

And on top of that, if you are throwing that switch, dial, stalk..
You dont look at it.

Left stalk- indicators .
Right stalk- wipers.
Big knob on centre console- volume.

You DONT LOOK!

You just KNOW by touch.

And touch screen?

"What the hell is it that I'm pressing now? Station change or is it seat heating.. A quick lookie.. Bike!"
Bang!

[Ian21401]

I’m with canis and ThomasG on this one.

[Black dog]

Originally Posted by Ian21401

I’m with canis and ThomasG on this one.

I was with them too until Thomas mentioned hitting the cyclist, now I'm starting to come round to the idea of touch screens😊

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by Black dog

I was with them too until Thomas mentioned hitting the cyclist, now I'm starting to come round to the idea of touch screens😊

Tempting as it is- my wife cycles to/from work, some 80 miles a week..

[don kalmar union]

The last few posts have drawn my attention to the very specific dangers of having to use any form of touch screen when on the move. I cannot see that they should not be banned and would go as a far as to say that any vehicle currently equipped and registered should be taken off the road in order that these touch functions, if present be disabled, as costly as that might be.

It is quite clear that any need for touch, without the presence of knobs, switches etc., will always take the driver's eyes off the road to precisely place a finger tip on what are in most cases big screens with many small specific touch points.

'touch' will always require eyes focused on a screen, wherever placed. That touch screen often being placed not only to the side of the line of sight required for driving in the horizontal plane but in volvo's case lower in the vertical plane. Profoundly dangerous, and difficult to understand how manufacturers have got away with this to date. Particularly in respect of chinese volvo still flogging the safety horse.

Don.

[hennabm]

There are not enough boys in blue to police the current law, so until Boris recruits his 20,000, who will police this, if it becomes law?

What next - ban you talking to passengers?

Yes I use hands free but I use it the same way I would talk to a passenger in the car. So no deep conversations regarding deep thought etc. I mainly answer as well rather than any dialling out, despite all the controls being on the steering wheel to do so.

To me common sense - or the lack of it is the big problem rather than the technology.

[GMcL]

By banning phones what exactly do they mean ?

Use of a telephone or the small Linux box that operates as a phone in addition to hundreds of other functions that people carry around ?

These boxes, through Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, also operate DAB radio, SatNav, plus a whole host of other functions as part of the car integrated systems.

[Simmy]

check out the tesla cars Everything on the car operates via the extra large touch screen and i mean everything. dozens of menus and sub menus . its a car where the driver is definately not looking at the road give them a wide birth