960 II - rust?

[capt jack]

I think that Stan's point about spares is possibly the key one here. Service items like oil filters, plugs, tyres etc, well they'll never really big an issue because the non-Volvo options are plentiful and of an acceptable quality.

But as these cars age so there's more chance of needing model-specific things like exhausts, suspension arms, body panels and trim items. Now people have been keeping classic cars on the road for years without there being a mainstream supply of parts for their cars. Popular classic marques and models have spawned their own specialist supplier networks. It's as easy to buy Morris Minor parts as it's ever been. Volvo 960 specialist spares however are a different matter. As far as I'm aware there are now fewer than 100 S90s on the UK's roads, so no-one is going to run a business dedicated to supplying spares for the model.

I think that the problems are going to arise in the future for those who rely on their 960 or S90 as their everyday car. Keeping an older car on the road when it's no bother to wait a fortnight for a critical part to be shipped from Sweden is one thing. Needing to fix your car on a Sunday, ready for the next week's daily 50 mile commute is a different matter.

Presently my car needs new drop links (see other thread for the gory details). And I've struggled to get any this time. I've also read posts on here about owners who've had difficulties in obtaining a heater matrix. If you have a wander through the partsforvolvos.com website you'll see that the range of 900-series parts is less comprehensive than say the 850 / p1 70series.

The other 960-killer is likely to be fuel consumption. Again if you don't use the car much then 24mpg won't concern you, but when more modern offerings are returning 50mpg and better, then even the "old-car-mpg vs new-car-depreciation" balance starts to tip against the older car.

But through a combination of luck, ingenuity and the fact that these cars were extremely well made to begin with, no doubt some will soldier on for years to come.

Jack

[RollingThunder]

Thanks Stan, Capt Jack.

As you've both said, it'll be the parts that are unique to the model that will be difficult to source - the multi link rear suspension being one of my concerns.

To be honest, while I love the S90's 'American' styling, I might end up going with a late MkI 960 simply because most of the parts are shared with the 940... But I still really like the MkII so I guess it'll be down to whichever one tugs at the heartstrings the most! Wifey has recently agreed to consider an estate which opens up the market considerably!

While it will be the daily driver - so will be called upon to do all the usual DD tasks such as commuting, shopping, taxiing the parents about, going to the tip, etc etc, I do have my Discovery to hand should the DD be unavailable. The Discovery is a showcar so isn't used much, (16-18mpg is another reason lol), but its always ready for action if needed.

Regarding economy, I've run many Volvo's as an only car (usually returning 24-27mpg) and have managed fine. I've had the joys of running a 55mpg diesel, and currently the S40 D5 is returning 35mpg - so a drop to mid-late 20s in petrol isn't a huge difference. £20-30 more a month is bearable if the car is one we love

While I remember CaptJack - I have a pair of Febi drop links in the garage - I'll get the part number for you later - if they'll fit your S90 you can have them for the cost of postage

[Laird Scooby]

Interesting thoughts there Jack, particularly on the suspension arms etc.I've just posted (on another forum for another marque) a thread (well, first post at least) outlining how to use aftermarket bushes to rebuild upper wishbones. Normally i wouldn't link to another forum for many reasons, however if it is viewed for the engineering content and ideas only, i think it will be a helpful contribution.

http://rover800.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14802

With the general idea of thinking outside the box in mind, the aftermarket brake reaction bar bushes for 6/800 Rover models bear a remarkable similarity to the spaceship bushes on the Volvo lower control arms. The lower arm is linked via a rigid bar that goes through the front crossmember via those bushes so they do the same job, just in a different place.

I'm only using this as an illustrative example, there are plenty of aftermarket PU spaceship bushes available. For those not available, cold cure PU is available to either "beef up" existing bushes or by careful measuring and a jig (preferably), the old rubber can be cut, scraped, media blasted or otherwise removed from the old bush sleeves and fresh PU poured in.

https://www.mbfg.co.uk/pt-flex-70-rubber.html

These are obviously more general items that are specific but can be recreated using simple, available materials. For more specific parts, sometimes model specific, either refurbishment/repair or good secondhand will be the only viable answers.

For example, one of the heated seat switches in my 760 shorted out recently. Blew the ignition control fuse which feeds the main ignition relay on mine - no ignition circuits effected but the windows, sunroof, mirrors, cig lighter and a few other things stopped working.
The only clue i had as to what and when it happened was the switch lit up as if the heated seat was on. As the bulb inside failed ages ago, seeing it light up, albeit for a split second gave me a huge clue so i pulled the switch out, renewed the fuse and the fuse remained intact. Just to prove the piont, i reconnected the switch, turned the ignition on and watched. Sure enough, blue flash inside the switch and another dead fuse!

Pulled the switch apart and found the fault, fixed it and dropped a blob of glue in the area it happened to prevent recurrence. While i was inside the switch, i replaced the bulb with a resistor and high brightness red LED and then pulled the other heated seat switch andchecked that and gave it the LED treatment as well.
Both switches had their contacts cleaned too, just to make sure they stayed reliable.

I'm not saying all problems can be fixed easily but it's worth looking at options other than what is actually listed as fitting the 960/S/V90 models. Many moons ago when i was just a puppy, i had a Zephyr 6 Mk4, virtually immaculate apart from some "patina" (no i don't mean rust, just crazed lacquer) on the paintowrk. Low mileage (66k from new) and did everything it was meant to except it had a wobble on the steering. It was a duff track rod end. Ford claimed it was NLA and after various searches and dead ends, i eventually swapped it for an 1100 Escrot van - no that wasn't a typo, i renamed it as it had a Flintstones floorpan from tinworm!
Weeks later i was in a breakers yard and there must have been a dozen Mk4 Zephyrs, all with new T/R/Es on, some even with the Ford barcode and Finis Code still plainly visible.
That was before t'internet and many moons later (about 6 years ago) i reserached this particular T/R/E and it turned out it had been in continuous production since the early 60s for the Mustang in the USA and all Granada models in the UK and several other Ford models. The fact there were so few Zephyrs left is why Ford dropped it from the application list and hence it showed as NLA on their parts fiche.

I wouldn't mind betting the same T/R/E is used by certain Jeep models as well.

There are so many parts out there that are used by more than one manufacturer that finding them just means needing to know the original spec and then searching back through old applications lists if they can be found online.

Then there's the USA, specifically Rock Auto :

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volvo,1998,s90

Shed loads of parts for the S90 including ABS sensors from £34 as one example but almost everything else you'd want/need. Be advised though, some parts will be LHD fitment only including exhaust systems that generally exit on the left stateside, obviously headlamps will be different and so on.

There's really no need to worry about parts availability for a long time yet!

[StanC]

Interesting points you all make about parts availability. I'm in the fortunate position that my 960 isn't any longer our daily runaround and over the past year I have twice waited a week or more for parts - an exchange power steering pump from Germany and the exhaust tail section from Sweden.

About three years ago the steering rack was groaning and my local independent found that the rack fitted to my car is non-standard. Then I remembered that the Volvo dealer replaced the rack under warranty when the car was only two years old (in 1998) - and they obviously fitted something other than the rack for a 960! Anyway, my local garage reckons that steering racks for my car are definitely no longer available but fortunately they stripped the rack, lubed it and it's been fine since.

The point of all this is that I'm worried that one day something will fail on the car that I won't be able to source a replacement for. I guess at that point it will have to go for scrap, which will be sad if it's something silly and minor that's failed.

Stan.

[martin calva]

Originally Posted by RollingThunder

So, I've decided to return to the fold of the brick - in particular a late 960/S90.

I've seen a few adverts stating 'MoT failure' - mostly due to rust. Is this a general problem now? I last had a 940 about 5-6 years ago, but even so, none of my 9x 900s have had any rust whatsoever... so I'm a bit worried.
(...)

Finally, what is the parts situation like for them? I know they're 25+ years old now, but can you still get the usual bushes, shocks, lights, engine parts for them? I'm expect trim items to be secondhand only now.

TIA

I have had my 1998 V90 for ten years now. At its last French CT, the inspector said "It is nearly perfect". He advised me to put a bit of underseal on two points at the rear chassis where it seems the plating and factory installed coating were deficient and it would rust through in a few years. (Same spot where my 940 rusted through and needed a bit of welding).

I have never had any problems getting parts. Normally Skandix can supply all that's needed. A few times I have bought things via people breaking similar cars on Ebay (sunshine roof - although in the end I got the existing roof working), seat motor. Bits of interior trim. Also plenty of new parts on Ebay - eg heater hoses, underbody plastic panels. Radiator. Plenty of useful help on Youtube - see RobertDIY.

One of the worst jobs on the car is replacing the heater matrix when this (as it inevitably wiil) starts leaking. It's a really horrible job but not impossible. New heater matrix is available at reasonably cost. (I forget the supplier but it's specified in a write-up on this forum.

Good luck with the car.

[StanC]

The leaking heater matrix is one of things I dread most. I'm of an age that I just couldn't be doing with spending hours stripping out half the car interior and lying upside down in the footwell. And then trying to remember how everything reassembles!

I'm just hoping that the fact I've changed the coolant religiously every couple of years throughout the life of the car will mean that there isn't much interior corrosion - certainly the engine and radiator interiors are pristine. Whether or not the heater matrix will be similar I don't know.

Incidentally, you mention the Mot Martin. My car, at 23 years old, has never failed an MoT and last year the tester commented that the car was near-perfect from a bodywork and mechanical point of view. I've gone and said it now - it's next MoT is due nest month!! Doh!

Stan.

[Ian21401]

Originally Posted by martin calva

I have had my 1998 V90 for ten years now. At its last French CT, the inspector said "It is nearly perfect". He advised me to put a bit of underseal on two points at the rear chassis where it seems the plating and factory installed coating were deficient and it would rust through in a few years. (Same spot where my 940 rusted through and needed a bit of welding).

Which points are those on the rear chassis please?

[RollingThunder]

Judging from the number of cars that I have seen that have been scrapped due to rust around the 'rear suspension mounting points' I'd guess its there?

I'd love to see some pics of this tbh so that I know exactly where to look when I'm checking vehicles that I'm considering buying. I can cope with most mechanical and electrical issues, but bodywork is something I cannot do - either rust repairs or paintwork

Having said that, I'm in a similar position to StanC - the mind is willing but the body complains like heck after a day's working on a car! I can barely walk the day after. I've completely replaced the interior in a LandRover Discovery (down to a bare shell) twice and it isn't something I'd do willingly again!

[taiwan740]

Originally Posted by RollingThunder

Judging from the number of cars that I have seen that have been scrapped due to rust around the 'rear suspension mounting points' I'd guess its there?

Can't speak for everyone but mine got welded in between the rear suspension mount point and the axle stand jack point thingy when it failed its MOT for it. Multilink rear axle.

[Rversteeg]

I found two pictures of the corrossion on my 98 LPT two years ago. Looking towards the rear axle, just before the jack point. This seems to be a common place. Not too complicated to weld though.
Another common place is underneath the battery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCLD-qk648 starting from 3.00 min.
Dutch might be difficult to follow, but this is a video series of high mileage cars. This particular episode featured two high mileage 940's, showing it is not just a one off coincidence...
Rob