1800: Wife wants a runabout, 1800 es??

[ClassicVolvoShop]

Originally Posted by amazondean

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The rear wheel arches which can rot badley are the same as the saloon.
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I think what makes the amazon a better bet regarding rust is the galvanised sills which stops any rust spreading and causing major work. ...

amazondean, take no offense in my correction - but the estate only shares rear wheel arches with the 4 door sedan - not the 2 door. With today's trend and focus on originality - the junction between front and rear part of the rear wheel arches - will be noted in a judgement at a Volvo meet..


Junction on the rear wheel arches, Estate

I have seen you earlier note something similar about galvanised sills etc. - which leeds me to think that you maybe think that the Amazon's where "born" with those?..

Fact about galvanised body parts for the Volvo'a are,

- that Volvo in late 1980'ies (when economi was low in Sweden and Scandinavia in general = low new car sale) made a clever move - and gave birth to the "Long Life-up-Volvo'ring"-concept (don't know how to translate it better):
Volvo offered their costumers a re-conditioning of their Volvo's - done with the all new galvanised "Long-Life"-body parts - Many people had their older Volvo's re-conditioned instead of buying new cars - and to us, the Volvo lovers, this was a nice move, that probably saved a good amount of older Volvo's and made them strong enough for a "second" turn.
Back then Volvo of course offered the usual "Fast Moving" bodyparts in the "Long Life"-line for their costumers too - therefore you're still possible to find an unused galvanised sill as well as a non-galvanised sill on eBay or a market etc.

To pick between Amazons and 1800 series...

When the above is said - the other important reason to why there are more nice condition Amazon's arround than 1800 series: (Please read following with some sence of humor mixed with estimated truth)..

The Amazon was in general owned by school/university-teachers, senior vices, economists, and so on people, who understands the value of correct maintenance - and who took care of the rather high investment a car is (was to them). Back then sales arguments where largely based on technology in the car - longlivity, accesability of service and parts etc. etc. - people who owned their car for so long that the investment was more than efficient - 8-15 years. (Volvo's own investigations said 11 years on average).

1800 series - where owned by a little more excentric type of people - who also loved their Volvo's - but where more the type who had a car for 3-5 years and then had to change it, because they had to appear with new "clothes" so to say.. Those people didn't care (and didn't had to) much of the decline of the Volvo - because in those 3-5 years they had it - it didn't decline.

Our "problem" todays is, that the original Amazon owners sold their car off to another "like-them-self"-type, who cared for their Amazon (the investment) for another 5-10 years and took good care of it because they also knew and understood the concept of keeping the car healthy and sound - for letting the investment last.
That's why we today are able to find very nice Amazon's with a very few number of previous owners - maybe even only 1-owner cars etc.

The 1800 series on the other hand - where sold off (first time) to similar excentric types that didn't quite have the money to be 1-time-owners. Again the owner is of the type who gives more for the appearence than the longlivity - therefore the 1800's decline wasn't taken as much care for, as the Amazon's was.

Today this means, that nice Amazon's (in general) has had far fewer owners - are taken well cared for (in general) - and (most importantly!) have had the service done when the car has needed it! - 1800 series on the other hand, has had a huge amount of previous owners (often 8-15) - and have in most cases NOT been taken care for, when needed. Instead 1800 series are very much victims of people who had the car as long as it didn't had issues - when issue evolved - it was sold off to someone who fixed the issue not for the investment sake, but for appearence' sake - and bottomline is, that 1800 series are worn out, serviced on a low scale/less-than-needed level - rust haven't been dealt with in time - bondo and quick respray was the easy and fast solution, instead of the "right" way to fix things.

Well...
I have had a 1967 1800 myself.. I'm not just leaning towards the Amazon - my point is, that there is a HUGE difference between old Amazons and old 1800 series - and even if you don't like my stereo-type explanation above - fact is, that 1800 series are in general rotten, poor condition and expensive/difficult to re-furbish - whereas an Amazon can be found in very good condition. Yes - I know that I haven't mentioned the fact that not as many 1800 series where sold as Amazon's - but the reason to WHY the 1800 series in general are poor is NOT the numbers sold - but the poor life they have lived..

Pretty240;
You need to talk to the wife, convince her, that she will get almost the same attention in an old Amazon - and if it turns out that the car isn't her - the money wont be wasted. I dare say, you WONT find a 1800 ES in such a condition, that you can drive it arround for shopping and fun - and not lose A LOT of money on it.

When not knowing much about a specific old car - it can really pay off, to pay someone who knows - as much as GBP 500 for the help.. Believe me.

I mean no offense to anyone - my opinion above are not necessarily "the truth" - please take it with a grane of salt and a hint of truth - with the taste of subjectivity..

Oh.. And so that no-one get it wrong: Today everybody who has an old Volvo, is a genuine lovely, good person!

[222s]

Originally Posted by amazondean

222s, as you obviously no most panels for the estate are the same as the saloon. The rear tailgates do rot very badley but usualy in the same places. they can be repaired as they tend only to rot along the bottom while the rest of the tailgates are rust free never mind any rot and decent ones that only require small repairs do come up for sale for little money. The rear wheel arches which can rot badley are the same as the saloon.

Front part of the arch is the same - the rear part is a different shape to the saloon, where it meets the 'valance', although saloon repair panels can be modified to fit. As you say, the lower tailgates only seem to rot along the bottom edge (so not that tricky to repair), but the top tailgates can rot everywhere - many of the tatty top tailgates that I see for sale, described as 'easily repairable' are actually fit only for scrap. When looking for a replacement tailgate for mine, I lost track of the supposedly immaculate or easily repairable ones that I went to see with intent to buy, which were little better than the utterly shot one that I currently have on my car. I did eventually find a decent & genuinely easily repairable one though!

Originally Posted by ClassicVolvoShop

I have seen you earlier note something similar about galvanised sills etc. - which leeds me to think that you maybe think that the Amazon's where "born" with those?..

Fact about galvanised body parts for the Volvo'a are,

- that Volvo in late 1980'ies (when economi was low in Sweden and Scandinavia in general = low new car sale) made a clever move - and gave birth to the "Long Life-up-Volvo'ring"-concept (don't know how to translate it better):
Volvo offered their costumers a re-conditioning of their Volvo's - done with the all new galvanised "Long-Life"-body parts - Many people had their older Volvo's re-conditioned instead of buying new cars - and to us, the Volvo lovers, this was a nice move, that probably saved a good amount of older Volvo's and made them strong enough for a "second" turn.
Back then Volvo of course offered the usual "Fast Moving" bodyparts in the "Long Life"-line for their costumers too - therefore you're still possible to find an unused galvanised sill as well as a non-galvanised sill on eBay or a market etc.

I'm confused - my car has galvanised outer sills, that I am certain are original due to the heavily faded paint. It also has a galvanised front panel, that again has knackered paint, and was already like that in the early '90s. It certainly never went near Volvo in the late 1980s!

[Alf ista]

I read somewhere that only some of the cars had galvanised front panels. My later car has one but I have seen project threads of older cars where the panel was clearly never galvanised. The book also stated that the 4 door cars had galvanised outer sills, but the 2 door cars only had the rear parts of the sills (or front, cant remember exactly) galvanised.

[asneddon]

I think the habits of the owners of the Amazon and P1800 above is probably pretty acurate (based on nothing but gut feeling). I would also add though, that a P1800 owner probably had a bit more disposable income, so having problems fixed, and having the dealer service them would seem to be a probably outcome. Also because they are bought because they are pretty, I wouldnt be supprised if they were cleaned more often.

That said. Ive had mine on the road for almost exactly 1 year, used every single workday except one (come rain, snow, hail etc). Only had a cover on it when it was snowing overnight, and had it parked outside. Still in perfect condition. Well, the carpet got a little damp when my drink bottle burst after a frost, but thats about it.

I dont think my wife would like it as a daily driver though. The steering is a little heavy when parking, and you have to be quite tall to sit comfortably in it and see out the windscreen. Now my wife likes old cars (well, use to). I had to fight to get her out of my 1977 Range Rover! She was also a little taken with my 1964 Mini Cooper S (with 114BHP!).

I guess it depends on your wife. If she likes the look of the P1800ES, then I doubt she would like the looks of the amazon estate as much. With either car nowdays its all about the image, not the actual merits of each car.

Get her to drive one. Then look for the best you can afford, and allow a yearly 'upgrade' budget to do the things that will need doing. There will always be something.

[amazondean]

222s. Yes your quite right, the rear part of the arch is slightly different, i forgot about that. regarding the sills, i am pretty sure that all four door saloons had galvanised sills all the way along as standard. the two door only had the front part galvanised up to the back of the door. The rear part is part of the rear wing and thats why the rear part of the sill on a two door is always rotten or has been replaced. The front panels seem to have had a mixture. Some weree galvanised and some weren't.

CLASSIC VOLVO SHOP. I only agree in part to the reasons YOU GIVE REGARDING RUST BETWEEN THE 1800 AND THE AMAZON. The 1800 has many rust traps compared to the amazon. Also having the complete front end that bolts on, on the amazon is also a big reason, as it is within any DIYers capabilities to replace. The 1800 is far more complex.

Also on ownership. There is a bigger chance that owning an 1800, you would have had it in a garage and used as a sports car on occasions. The amazon was a serious work horse that would have been used for long journeys. In the sixties these cars would have been a god send to people doing huge mileages as there wern't many cars capable at the time.

Once these cars became bangers an amazon would have been classed as a bigger banger than the 1800 because of the nature of the cars. So in my opinion the amazon would have been far more abused than the 1800, yet there are far more good amazons in relation to 1800s that are in a decent and proper road worthy condition. Taking into account there were far more amazons built.

[b20e]

Steering is the only issue, it is heavy.
I have a 73 ES and did scotland and back a month ago.
In my experience the more you drive them the better they on the reliability front.
No problems.
Full load and 3 up for a while too.
27MPG.

[aspleyheath]

I have a 240 estate in immuculate condistion FSH, L reg Garaged from new. It was my faethers car and he has given it to my son who cannot get insurance. Car has done 86,000 miles