Suspension advice needed

[capt jack]

After a 200 mile round trip to Birmingham yesterday in the S90 I felt that there was a bit of vibration through the car, so I dropped it off today at the local tyre shop for wheel balancing. When I went back an hour later they said that the wheels weren't out of balance at all, but the front suspension arm bushes - the big ones at the rear of the lower arms were completely shot, and in urgent need of replacement.

They advised against driving the car until these had been replaced! They made it sound as though the wheels would drop off if I so much as went over even the smallest of bumps in the road.

Now the car passed the MOT just three weeks ago (at a different garage), picking up two advisories saying that the front suspension bushes were deteriorated but not bad enough to warrant an MOT fail. So either the MOT garage have passed a car that should not have passed, or the tyre shop are over-dramatising the whole thing. They even said that I should get an independent report done and report the MOT garage to VOSA.

Just to add to the joy of the moment I'm due to start a new job tomorrow, 25 miles from home, and I really really need my car to get there. I can't very well turn up late on the first day blaming car troubles!

So, I could do with a bit of expert advice please!

Do I drive the car to work as planned and then arrange to get the suspension arms replaced as soon as possible, but not worry about it all too much?

OR

Do I make alternative travel arrangements and absolutely not use the car until this is fixed?

And in terms of the repair work, do I get the suspension arms replaced complete (and the bottom ball joints while I'm at it)? Or do I just get new bushes pressed in (polyurethane maybe) and not worry about the front bushes or the ball joints?

After some interweb searching it looks as though taken overall, the cost of fitting completely new arms and ball joints will work out much the same as having someone fit new bushes to the existing arms.

I should perhaps add that the car does drive OK, that the bushes were an MOT advisory last year too, and that all I've noticed is that the front suspension can creak a bit, and this very minor vibration at 70mph plus.

There are no clonks, no knocks, the brakes pull up straight and true and the car (a 1997 S90) steers perfectly well.

Comments and advice welcomed - for which many thanks in advance!

Cheers

Jack

[Laird Scooby]

Something smells funny!

The tyre shop you took it to, do they also do MoTs, repairs and wear blue overalls?

[capt jack]

Hi Dave.

No, there’s nothing to suggest they’re either particularly quick or fit, but a branch of Wilco Motosave. They don’t do MOTs, basically they’re a tyre fitting shop. I went to them because they do offer a wheel balance service, and they’re open on a Sunday.

The MOT was done three weeks ago by the local National Tyres garage because they were doing a half-price MOT offer. If anyone had something to gain to be honest it was National because they do carry out suspension repairs. Also the same examiner has been there for several years now - he’s done I think four or five MOTs for my cars in that time. It’s odd because he picked up a very slight bit of play in a drop link, which actually made me more confident in his judgement. I took the drop link off the car and the play in it really was minimal.

I guess my initial question is just how much risk am I running if I continue to drive the car? I don’t mind spending to get it done properly. It’s a great car and I want to keep it for the foreseeable future.

But who do I believe and trust? The MOT tester or the manager of the tyre shop?

And the fact that I’m starting a new job tomorrow just means that I need to focus on that this week, and not particularly on tired suspension bushes!

Jack

[Laird Scooby]

Drop links are a good stand-by for examiners to put down as an advisory Jack.

What i mean by that is generally they can't find anything wrong but in case they've missed something important and/or to prove they did examine it, they put down "Minor play in a drop link" or similar words for a similar bush.

Often the play is minimal or non-existent but it's written evidence they've looked at the car.
This is particularly useful for them if they've just had or expect to have, a visit from VoSA.

None of that puts you any further forward with what you originally asked though. Have you looked at the bushes yourself?

How far is your new job from your nearest Volvo dealer? Many dealers do a "Pre-Winter check", can't remember if it's free or there's a small charge (about £29.95 rings a bell but whether that was for something else i can't remember) and they check the car over, fluids, bulbs, wipers, tyres, so on and so forth. If you ask them for a list of everything they check and it includes a look at the bushes or is likely to (in other words, if they have it on the ramp and check general things, if the bushes are that bad, they should be noticed) then i'd say for your own peace of mind, go for that. Don't mention what's happened though or they will "find" those bushes.

If they don't mention the bushes, ask them if they noticed any dodgy bushes, if they ask why, then explain. They may have another look to double check and come back and say they're fine or sorry for missing them - i doubt it'll be the latter though!

Alternatively, give them a call and ask if you can take it in during your lunch hour for them to have a quick look at those bushes, explain what's happened and you need a second opinion.

This is a link to the "Winter Health Check", not sure what location it's in so you'll need to check/adjust the location but it should cover those bushes and most other obvious MoT points :

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/find-a-...r-health-check

If it does show anything untoward up, the fact it's not a dedicated check on those bushes suggests you didn't set out to find fault with either the MoT place or the tyre place.
Being a Volvo dealer, they're likely to look for things to fix to get work into the workshops though!

Meanwhile if it was driving ok except for that vibration during braking (which could also be worn but not MoT fail worn shock absorbers) i would say drive it with a bit more care than normal to work and to the nearest Volvo dealer and then see what the verdict is.

By the way, it's not unknown for unscrupulous people in a garage of any description to fill you with horror stories because they have a used car sales sideline and they have a mate who wants a near immaculate whatever. When they deliver the news your car is unsafe to drive, they usually then offer to take it off your hands cheap to them but a good price to you for what is essentially a scrapper (or so they'd have you believe) and sell it straight on to whoever at a vast profit.

The one bit of credance the MoT tester has in his favour at the moment is it was a half-price MoT. These are usually offered by places as a loss-leader to get you through the door so they can find faults and get the work fixing them.
Many moons ago my local paper printed a free MoT voucher for use at the local Fast-Fit (owned and operated by Ford in their dealerships at the time) and as i had a Mk5 Cortina that was due for MoT, i took it there.

The failure list was about the length of the M1, i kid you not! I already knew about the void bushes (common Cortina problem) and the small hole in the sill but jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzz, the rest of the list!

Did the void bushes, had a word with the bodyshop next door and got the sill welded for the princely sum of a fiver (invisible repair as well!) and put it in to a local test station near where i lived. Left it there in the morning, took a borrowed car to work and went back in the evening to pay and pick up the certificate - which turned out to be a fail! Both rear fog light bulbs had blown at some point after dropping it off! Fitted a new pair of bulbs and got the pass certificate then and there.

[capt jack]

Thanks Dave for such a considered reply.

The vibration is very very slight, not even there on some surfaces, just noticeable on others at around 70mph. Braking is absolutely fine - no issues at all. That's what made me assume it simply needed a wheel balance. Up to 65mph the car is perfectly smooth.

The MOT tester did mention the two wishbone bushes and said that he could see that I'd lubricated them - which I had, with a silicone spray, which did actually stop them creaking.

He also mentioned the drop link, and yes, when I took it off the car the ball joint at one end was definitely a bit sloppy. So he was 100% correct on that.

The MOT was just three weeks and eight hundred miles ago. I can't believe that both bushes could have gone from "worn but OK" to "totally dangerously knackered" in such a short space of time! The advisory for the 2018 test 15,000 miles ago was exactly the same. "Bushes worn but not causing excessive movement both sides."

My instinct is to trust the MOT tester over the guy at the tyre shop to be honest. And I agree with you about the loss-leader pricing of the MOT. Also, he's got a lot to lose if he passes cars that should not pass. I know that the lower arms need to be replaced, but I'd rather do it (or get it done) when I don't have the imminent prospect /pressure of starting a new job the next morning!

The tyre shop guy was telling me that the suspension could collapse and a wheel come off, but when I think about it that's nonsense. There's a horizontally positioned rubber donut with a vertical bolt through the middle, all of which is within a forged steel ring in the suspension arm. For anything spectacular to happen the rubber donut part of a bush would have to fall out altogether. If things were really so bad then surely there'd be all sorts of knocks and clonks, and serious vibration through the steering and especially when braking.

Getting another independent opinion is a must, I agree - it's just a matter of working out the how and when sometime in the next few days.

Thanks again

Cheers

Jack

[Laird Scooby]

You're welcome Jack. The reason i suggested the shock absorbers is i've had a very strange one on my Rover for a while now, slight vibration at 70-80mph and during braking but the biggest probelm is if i haven't used it for a few days, every pothole/bump results in a hell of a thud/crash/bang from the front suspension, particularly off side.
After a few miles, this disappears and even going over the same bumps etc on the way home, it doesn't crash/bang/thud the way it did on the way out.

Yesterday when i took it out, i noticed the front end got a bit vague and floaty at speed but we had a lot of cross-winds yesterday so i put it down to that.
Coming home however the wind had dropped and it was still vague and floaty and in fact, over the first half mile from where i'd been for 4 hours, it crashed, banged and thudded over every pothole/bump.

Conclusion - weak front shocks losing their ability to damp correctly when not used for a while and "pumping themselves up" again when used. Had this happen a few times in the past, similar to when a clutch master or slave cylinder goes weak and your foot goes to the floor if you haven't used the clutch a while - pump the pedal and you get the clutch back. Same idea and similar action.

Of course, by the time i've driven to the MoT station the shocks have had a really good work out so are working as they shold, hence no problems found even when i asked the tester to give the front an extra thorough check!

Could well be you have something similar!

Good luck with the new job anyway!

[classicswede]

Those bushes are a weak point of the mk2 960 front suspension and can fail quickly. I would jack it up and have a feel for yourself.

The suspension is not going to fall of but it can making braking interesting and cause uneven tyre wear.

I fitted a couple of sets to mine before converting to poly bushes. These bushes are worth going Volvo on as the aftermarket ones do not seem to last or go for good complete arms

[capt jack]

Thanks both for the wise words

Yes, let's keep this in perspective. I've had a look - nothing has changed from when I last applied the silicone spray. Nothing is obviously broken or loose, the tyre wear on the front is even, with no sign of anything amiss.

When I get a chance I'll review and price up my options - and in the meantime I'll drive carefully!

Cheers

Jack

[capt jack]

An update - the S90 is now at a local garage where they're going to fit two new Volvo suspension arm rear bushes. I should have it back by Wednesday.

In the meantime they've given me a service courtesy car - a Fiesta. So nice as that is, I can't wait until I get my own car back again!

Cheers

Jack

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by capt jack

An update - the S90 is now at a local garage where they're going to fit two new Volvo suspension arm rear bushes. I should have it back by Wednesday.

In the meantime they've given me a service courtesy car - a Fiesta. So nice as that is, I can't wait until I get my own car back again!

Cheers

Jack

Glad it's being sorted for you Jack - had the bushes failed catastrophically?