Where did all the fuel go?

[Bonefishblues]

Originally Posted by Turbodave

Frankly, the country is a mess just now... and I think a lot is down to the media and their need to the next big story, regardless of the facts and then the Facebookers just fuel the fire "OMG hun, have yooz herd theirs no fewl, best go and get some... even though uv not got a car, just fill up wee Jaysens water bottle hun xoxoxox" and we end up in a proper old mess.

It's madness.

I really don't think that. They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't (report, that is), and whilst they have their 'moments' on balance I'm happy we have what we do.

It's the reaction of people that's the cause of where we are now - leaving aside the politics of the macro-economics of the situation for a moment.

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by MG68

This is just a rehearsal for when the UK has to go electric..

It's abundantly clear that there is not the infrastructure now, let alone 10 years time.

When this country is struggling now with electricity production, how is it suddenly going to cater for a nation on motor electricity?

It won't.

Agreed.

I didn't realise until recently that 'fuel cell' (hydrogen-powered) vehicles actually rely upon using electricity to create the hydrogen that fuels them. Also, my understanding is that they're less efficient in their use of electricity than electric vehicles. So fuel cell vehicles aren't right, either.

It also occurred to me yesterday that electric cars aren't that different to diesel electric locomotives inasmuch as both use oil to create electricity to generate motive force. The only difference is where the oil is burned in relation to where the vehicle is. This shows just how superficial the 'green' image of electric cars is. In reality, all electric cars do is to move the pollution generation from city centres to wherever power stations are.

Scientists have coined the term 'embedded emissions' to describe the true environmental footprint of any given car, and it is the amount if embedded emissions in any vehicle that is a better measure of its green-ness, not the emissions at point of use. I don't, however, hear many voices talking about embedded emissions right now inasmuch as they might cause a lot of upset.

The real issue is that eventually humanity will have to face the fact that it can't continue to move 1.5 tons of metal, plastic and rubber to get 80Kg of humanity from A to B. It's just so wasteful of a dwindling supply of non-renewable resources.

That, however, is a bitter pill to swallow, and certainly not a vote winner unless you're standing in an unpopularity contest.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Sotosound

...It also occurred to me yesterday that electric cars aren't that different to diesel electric locomotives inasmuch as both use oil to create electricity to generate motive force...

I'll assume you're using 'oil' to include the use of other fossil fuels such as gas, but even so you are overlooking the large contribution of energy generation from nuclear, wind and solar.

The future needn't be bleak, even if Brexit is currently sending us into reverse!

[Whippy]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...se-visa-rules/

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Whippy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...se-visa-rules/

Hmm yes... The Torygraph, who famously urged their readers to vote leave!

[Familyman 90]

Some maths reveals some interesting aspects.

300,000 HGV licence holders of working age in the UK.

The industry currently employs about 150,000.

That leaves 150,000 with licences who are not working in the industry.

Now, lets be generous and suggest that a third of them are unavailable due to ill health, etc.

That leaves 100,000 licenced drivers who are not diriving lorries. Coincidentally, the UK is short of up to (depending on who's numbers you believe) 100,000 drivers. 100,000 drivers - 100,000 vancancies.

So there is a 100,000 driver shortage, yet there are 100,000 drivers who aren't driving. I'm not the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer (I stopped at my Masters) but for the life of me I can't see what that has to do with the 'B' word. I think it far more likely those 100,000 aren't filling the gap because of crap conditions, dire hours, and the need to regularly pee in a bottle.

[anotherv60]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

Some maths reveals some interesting aspects.

300,000 HGV licence holders of working age in the UK.

The industry currently employs about 150,000.

That leaves 150,000 with licences who are not working in the industry.

Now, lets be generous and suggest that a third of them are unavailable due to ill health, etc.

That leaves 100,000 licenced drivers who are not diriving lorries. Coincidentally, the UK is short of up to (depending on who's numbers you believe) 100,000 drivers. 100,000 drivers - 100,000 vancancies.

So there is a 100,000 driver shortage, yet there are 100,000 drivers who aren't driving. I'm not the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer (I stopped at my Masters) but for the life of me I can't see what that has to do with the 'B' word. I think it far more likely those 100,000 aren't filling the gap because of crap conditions, dire hours, and the need to regularly pee in a bottle.

If I’m understanding it correctly any class c licence is in that category so anyone with horses who has a c1 would be counted as a heavy goods driver. Unlikely those demographic overlap much. The other interesting thing is that if HGV drivers are listed as skilled then according to the new immigration rules they will need to be paid more than the current rate of pay in the industry, which I would imagine is why the hauliers industry isn’t fussed…even higher pay.

[dped]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

.

So there is a 100,000 driver shortage, yet there are 100,000 drivers who aren't driving. I'm not the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer (I stopped at my Masters) but for the life of me I can't see what that has to do with the 'B' word. I think it far more likely those 100,000 aren't filling the gap because of crap conditions, dire hours, and the need to regularly pee in a bottle.

Agree Brexit is not to blame for it all OK we lost an estimated 15k drivers but then we also lost an estimated 40k HGV driving tests and training with many leaving for a better work life balance. But while people talk about a fuel crisis that is media made and lack of food for Christmas which is 3months away there is a bigger issue no one is talking about. EU based drivers are reluctant to bring goods to the UK for fear of getting stuck with the return load due to checks on customs paperwork. Result things like car parts are getting harder to find with many sites saying "out of stock" on many lines. If it carries on like this there will be a lot of unroadworthy cars out there.

The other point is do we wish to see HGV drivers out there who have had less training and a watered down test. It's bad enough 2/3 of the training is theory and not driving. A 19yr old who passed a car test 6mths ago can get a class1 with poor training or time to get to grips with the size of the vehicle they are driving. But it wont be the Gov to blame when they kill someone it will be the driver who could face prison due to been fast tracked.

[garethXC]

"A 19yr old who passed a car test 6mths ago can get a class1 with poor training or time to get to grips with the size of the vehicle they are driving"

sorry but i though you had to be at least 21 to get a HGV licence?

[Fastpatsilents]

Originally Posted by Zebster

Hmm yes... The Torygraph, who famously urged their readers to vote leave!

And strange that they, and the Daily Wail, failed to mention the 5,000 visas for poultry workers? Was that shortage manufactured by poultry industry lobbyists who used to work for Channel 4?