Where did all the fuel go?

[Whippy]

Originally Posted by T5R92011

Why can't the british drive their own HGVs? Is there some kind of special skill required that only sentient beings from europe can attain?

Not paid enough. It's in the bosses interests to get their lovely, poorly paid, dependant, eastern European drivers back.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by T5R92011

Why can't the british drive their own HGVs? Is there some kind of special skill required that only sentient beings from europe can attain?

That is a very good point, which the government clearly agrees with. Here is a short extract from the transport secretary (in italics):

"I'm afraid there has been some pretty irresponsible briefing out by one of the road haulage associations, which has helped to spark a crisis, and that's very, very unhelpful, it's counterproductive.

"I know that they're desperate to have more European drivers undercutting British salaries, I know that's been their ask all along.

"We actually think that it's important that this country can train people, that people can do a proper day's work, that they're paid properly for that work, and that the long-term solution cannot be undercutting British salaries and having a constant vicious cycle of not being able to train people here and employ them on decent salaries."

I spoke with one of my neighbours, a HGV driver, only the other day about this as we walked our dogs. He agrees with that sentiment exactly (and he is not a Conservative party supporter - far from it); he tells me haulage contactors have used cheap Eastern European lorry drivers to keep the wages of British drivers down and to avoid the costs of training and certification.

Britain needs to get the civil servants at DVSA and DVLA back to work properly - and so get sufficient British HGV drivers working.

[ilmiont]

Originally Posted by T5R92011

Why can't the british drive their own HGVs? Is there some kind of special skill required that only sentient beings from europe can attain?

See my post from a few pages back. Industry complains they can't get young drivers, then younger people who like me who seriously consider it look at the industry, the way the world is going, and what's on offer, and on balance it doesn't add up even against a desire to drive the vehicles.

There's a very uncertain future for the vehicles, and possibly even mass job losses due to encroaching degrees of automation in future decades. The UK's rest facilities are a shambles, the CPC pushes out people like me who would take casual/part-time runs in emergencies like this, you're contending with ever increasing traffic on a daily basis, and the general population still sees it as an unskilled job and will happily tail-gate you/go down the inside as the trailer swings on a roundabout, then wonder why said trailer is in their door.

I'm sure people reject it for different reasons; for some it may be they'd be happy with it but it just hasn't got the status/prestige (same as picking vegetables, everyone whinges there aren't any in the shops but won't do it themselves, no matter what wage is offered). For me it's the uncertainty though and concern over the end of diesel.

I speak not as a trucker, just someone who's given it a lot of thought, done a lot of research, and spoken to real truckers who are unanimous - as you also see a few pages back - that the kind of trucking I want doesn't exist anymore. There's a growing push to "modernise" the industry and make it more attractive to newcomers; I daresay a lot of would-be truckers are like me though, they're interested in the vehicles first and foremost but engines and actual driving are fading behind computers, emissions laws, and paperwork.

I for one am kind to truckers on the road - at least I try to be. I'll let you out, let you go where you want to round a roundabout or a junction, and avoid being in the middle lane and under your door. A lot of people would probably benefit from an extended "awareness of the handling capabilities of other vehicles" section being added to the driving/theory test.

[Wizzpop]

Originally Posted by T5R92011

Why can't the british drive their own HGVs? Is there some kind of special skill required that only sentient beings from europe can attain?

We could, but, reading other posts, there's no great incentive to do so. I suspect there are a number of reasons why not, including pay.
The real issue is that the government hasn't, until now (far too late), considered the implications of brexit, the changes to IR35 and other regulations on the recruitment of drivers. Before brexit it was easy to recruit from eastern europe, that door was shut last January, but we didn't plan ahead to cover the shortfall.

Our government, including the civil servants don't seem to understand what is going on in country outside their little political enclave. Until we get government ministers who have actually worked in business, we will continue to get these problems.

[Cull06]

Originally Posted by Wizzpop

We could, but, reading other posts, there's no great incentive to do so. I suspect there are a number of reasons why not, including pay.
The real issue is that the government hasn't, until now (far too late), considered the implications of brexit, the changes to IR35 and other regulations on the recruitment of drivers. Before brexit it was easy to recruit from eastern europe, that door was shut last January, but we didn't plan ahead to cover the shortfall.

Our government, including the civil servants don't seem to understand what is going on in country outside their little political enclave. Until we get government ministers who have actually worked in business, we will continue to get these problems.

Trust me. The civil servants know exactly what is going on. It’s the political masters who aren’t listening.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by ilmiont

See my post from a few pages back. Industry complains they can't get young drivers, then younger people who like me who seriously consider it look at the industry, the way the world is going, and what's on offer, and on balance it doesn't add up even against a desire to drive the vehicles.

There's a very uncertain future for the vehicles, and possibly even mass job losses due to encroaching degrees of automation in future decades. The UK's rest facilities are a shambles, the CPC pushes out people like me who would take casual/part-time runs in emergencies like this, you're contending with ever increasing traffic on a daily basis, and the general population still sees it as an unskilled job and will happily tail-gate you/go down the inside as the trailer swings on a roundabout, then wonder why said trailer is in their door.

I'm sure people reject it for different reasons; for some it may be they'd be happy with it but it just hasn't got the status/prestige (same as picking vegetables, everyone whinges there aren't any in the shops but won't do it themselves, no matter what wage is offered). For me it's the uncertainty though and concern over the end of diesel.

I speak not as a trucker, just someone who's given it a lot of thought, done a lot of research, and spoken to real truckers who are unanimous - as you also see a few pages back - that the kind of trucking I want doesn't exist anymore. There's a growing push to "modernise" the industry and make it more attractive to newcomers; I daresay a lot of would-be truckers are like me though, they're interested in the vehicles first and foremost but engines and actual driving are fading behind computers, emissions laws, and paperwork.

I for one am kind to truckers on the road - at least I try to be. I'll let you out, let you go where you want to round a roundabout or a junction, and avoid being in the middle lane and under your door. A lot of people would probably benefit from an extended "awareness of the handling capabilities of other vehicles" section being added to the driving/theory test.

What a very good piece ilmiont. I'm afraid you are right about so many things, for example it is really difficult to employ people in agriculture now (not just at harvest time - you are right that British people won't do the work, whatever wage is offered), heavy industry is similar - people want jobs but no one wants the cement works next door, or to work in it. We are short or slaughtermen, electricians, plumbers, HGV drivers, nurses... indeed almost anything with a manual content, and yet 49% of our school leavers go on to take degrees, often with no real vocational content. This is not a new thing, it has been happening at least since Mr Blair's administration and has pervaded all governments since - nor is is a particularly British thing; it was exactly the same in Germany, the Netherlands and the USA when I lived in those countries. It seems that we are happier selling each other mortgages and insurance from call centres that we are reaping asparagus or driving trucks.

Professional driving is particularly difficult in that we (and almost everyone else except China) wants to phase out fossil fuels and automate everything within the next working lifetime. It is considerably expensive for a chap new to driving to qualify and remain certified, and perhaps hard for an individual to justify all that expense for what might be a short career.

I don't think this is a fault of this government, or any recent governments. Within the EU there was always a stream of cheap labour from the East to pick up the slack bringing in the harvest, drive trucks or whatever. We decided (rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter) not to pursue the European experiment, so now we have to get real about doing a lot of this stuff ourselves. Not everything is the responsibility of central government since we don't have a centrally planned economy (communism).

We will need truck drivers for at least the next 2 decades though - so we had better get on and provide enough pretty soon. Perhaps after that everything is automated and we have plenty of nuclear power so we can live out John Maynard Keynes vision of playing tennis and writing poetry all day?

:-)

[Wizzpop]

Originally Posted by Cull06

Trust me. The civil servants know exactly what is going on. It’s the political masters who aren’t listening.

Aren't listening, or won't listen as they would have to admit to their mistakes.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Wizzpop

Our government, including the civil servants don't seem to understand what is going on in country outside their little political enclave. Until we get government ministers who have actually worked in business, we will continue to get these problems.

You are certainly correct about the civil service. It continues to grow like Topsy and becomes more remote from anyone that actually produces anything.

The villains of this particular piece are DVLA and DVSA - both of whom are doing all they can to resist returning to proper work, but at the same time there is a huge backlog of drivers' applications, certification and training to complete.



Credit to Mr Moate.

Both agencies have monopolies, so perhaps the answer (short term and long term) is to outsource their roles to contractors.

Ho hum, I suspect a few Tory-haters will dislike that idea :-)

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Othen

You are certainly correct about the civil service. It continues to grow like Topsy and becomes more remote from anyone that actually produces anything.

The villains of this particular piece are DVLA and DVSA - both of whom are doing all they can to resist returning to proper work, but at the same time there is a huge backlog of drivers' applications, certification and training to complete.

Both agencies have monopolies, so perhaps the answer (short term and long term) is to outsource their roles to contractors.

Ho hum, I suspect a few Tory-haters will dislike that idea :-)

You're clearly trolling. That final paragraph proves it!

Yep, what could go wrong with outsourcing vital government services to Capita or Serco? LOl

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Zebster

You're clearly trolling. That final paragraph proves it!

What does trolling mean? It sounds like you might mean it in a pejorative sense.