Engine 850: B5234T/2.3/20v/T5: THE definitive word on LPG for T5's....

[JOE 90]

Hi all,

I know that LPG conversions have been discussed a lot over the last 2 years...and have read most of the previous posts on this subject.

But new systems are always being developed and NOW some of our T5 colleagues have useful, useable experience to draw on.

I live in the sticks and work unsocial hours - thus avoiding the rush hour(s) - and manage to obtain 26/27 mpg on a regular basis. This, of course, on Tesco 99 and believe me , plenty of boot. Indeed, I have a theory that the harder you boot the motor the better the fuel consumption....but that for another time.

The - soon to be £5 a gallon - question is...IS LPG worth doing...what is the best system NOW on the market...what will installation cost...are there any downsides to LPG V Petrol on these powerful cars...and what is going to happen to the price of LPG...remember 'cheap' diesel 10 years ago...ain't cheap anymore!

Well, OK that is a few questions...but any thoughts on this ol' chestnut i am sure will be welcome by all of us who don't own a bottom less wallet!!

Many thanks to all for your thoughts.

Joe 90.

[earkle]

To be honest the only reason i went to look at my newly aquired 850, was because it was already converted to LPG!
Buying a volvo(gulp!) was not wot i saw to be a good thing to do(feul econ. 28mpg!! useless!) but after the first drive i felt it was the missing link to my driving lifestyle! and will never say never again!

but anyway because she has been converted before i bought her, i did a bit of researching and have came up with a few interesting points...

1/All LPG systems still run on petrol on start up(but thats it.bout £5 a
month)

2/Costs about £100 a year to service the system,ontop of normal servicing.

3/A new system costs per pot!, so a T5 system(£1900) is more expensive than a Subaru!(£1600)

4/Now, you can put LPG on turbo engines(newest systems)
{the garage that changed mine have converted a 512bhp Subaru with no bother at all!!}

5/ you used to loose 20% feul econ, now it's only 10%!!!(WoW!), and you only loose up to 5bhp nowadays!

6/ It is better for the world, and your pocket!(pocket savings from buying a diesel, and convert to gas!)wot i would do, not necessarly for everyone.

7/ It could be seen as an inconvience, but thats just same old England i'm affraid :0(

8/ Can't go fast on it, and have to lube the engine with petrol every once and a while...TOTAL Rubbish!!

9/ Tests have proven that when running on gas, the wear on your engine is almost nothing!(test engine run for 200,000mls,no service! and had the same wear as a 10,000mls petrol run engine!)

10/ All systems have an automatic switch over, so if you ran out. your not stranded! AND, you can switch from one to another whenever you wish.

Ok this is slightly one sided..LOL, but in other ways it's not really, As for the tax increase..who knows!, frankly i don't need to worry about it, coz in the end we all live in Rip Off Britian!, and until as a nation we learn not to Sh*t on the little Guy, the rich keep gettin rich, and the poor keep gettin poorer,
Well that and the overall lack of responsibility alot of people are trying to get away with within todays culture!, but thats a whole different discussion...


So in short, i say personal choice. (he,he!)

[Chris_Rogers]

Heres may take on it.

The conversion (about £2000) costs more than the car is worth!

For the cost you can buy 400 gallons of petrol even at £5 per gallon.

You have extra complication and extra servicing costs.

There is a risk that a poor conversion may cause engine damage, burnt valves etc. that will be difficult to prove as being due to the conversion so will probably end up at your cost.

You are possibly going to get a long payback time depending on your mileage this maybe longer than the remaining life of the car. You also run the risk that tax will increase and further extend the payback time.

[classicswede]

There are pleanty of advantages to LPG. Conversion cost is only about £1500 not £2000. At the moment gas prices are high to to massive profits from the gas companies not tax. Duty on LPG will only go up 1p more than petrol per year for the next few years. If the duty goes up to much them m,any ppl will end up using non duty paid fuel and lpg is undetectable.

Based on the £1500 conversion cost you will need to be spending about £50 a week on petrol to see your conversion caost back within a year.

As to performance about 5% loss in power on a n/a engine would be ablot the maximum loss - on a turbo car you can sometime gain a few BHP due to the extreamly high octane and superb fuel control form systems like the OMVL Piro.

Mike_Brace is the person to ask on the forum about conversions.

[earkle]

Well as i said, i ain't had my car long and i've just filled my lpg tank for the first time, and i was shocked to say the least!

I had travelled 192 miles and thought i'd better fill it up as i don't want to completely run out..and it cost £14 to fill the tank!!! £14!, i was stunned!

My car has the older system on(loses 20% mpg) and it still means it 's more econ than a deisel!

Outcome, A very happy bloke! Just thought i'd let you know.

[GavinC]

Here's my opinion: Anyone doing 20,000 miles/year or more on petrol - particularly in a relatively thirsty motor - should take a hardheaded, long look at lpg. If you intend keeping your petrol car for a few years at 20,000+ miles/year it's absolutely worth converting. If you are changing a car for another and interested in fuel cost savings be sure to consider not only diesel but lpg as well. Just make sure you get a professionally installed conversion. Do your homework, get the facts, do the figures, relate it to your own situation and you won't be at all disappointed! Altho' my car is a 960 - not a T5 - for high annual mileages it's very difficult to justify petrol even on high performance turbos now the technology can deal with it, IMO. There's another thread over the last few days to do with lpg under 'General Topics - General Volvo Issues & Discussions.'

[M D E]

Hi all,

Bought my 2001 T5 C70 to convert to LPG, I have now found out pre 2001 cars can be converted but post 2001 have softer valve seats and heads which cannot cope with the increased temperature. Shame because my previous 960 was converted which reduced my fuel bill by £40 per week.

[GavinC]

Well, I learn something every day...To do with post 2001 cars having valves and heads too soft for LPG - where did you get that info from?

I thought that in the days of leaded petrol, heads and valves were too soft for LPG; with the advent of unleaded - harder components were used which were coincidentally a big improvement for LPG compatibility. With regard to the possibility of valve seat erosion some lpg installers fit 'Flashlube' kits to inject lubrication to the valve seats...P'raps that would resolve the problem for post-2001 models??

Otherwise my next car wil have to be a diesel...meanwhile I'll hang on to my LPG 960 for a long time. Can anyone comment?

[jimathan]

Ill ad my two Penarth for what its worth. I have a 1997 v70 AWD 2.5T. Estate. It’s been on LPG for almost a year now and runs very well. It is the Tartarini SGI (sequential gas injection) system. Cost £1600 and returns about 22-24 mpg depending on driving conditions. Power is down about 10bhp or so but you don’t notice It unless you nail it. It doesn’t have or need a flash lube kit. To my knowledge if an engine is ok on un-leaded it is ok on LPG. It took me a day to mod the spare wheel.

[bigbad]

Originally Posted by GavinC

Well, I learn something every day...To do with post 2001 cars having valves and heads too soft for LPG - where did you get that info from?

I thought that in the days of leaded petrol, heads and valves were too soft for LPG; with the advent of unleaded - harder components were used which were coincidentally a big improvement for LPG compatibility. With regard to the possibility of valve seat erosion some lpg installers fit 'Flashlube' kits to inject lubrication to the valve seats...P'raps that would resolve the problem for post-2001 models??

Otherwise my next car wil have to be a diesel...meanwhile I'll hang on to my LPG 960 for a long time. Can anyone comment?

1999 t5 50,000 on gas , just removed head to see if gas has done any damage , and the answer is NO and yes i bray it !! using brc system , 2,000 mls per month on gas , is good , shame petrol is so bloody much !
simon