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Brake System Upgrade

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Old Nov 17th, 2009, 11:44   #11
classicswede
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Originally Posted by dheming View Post
Wow, yeah with 6 pivots points that could get real bad over time.


So according to my dated Haynes repair manual the stock front calipers in my '67 single circuit Amazon are 3 piston type with 2x 1.5" and 1x 2.125 pistons each. .
Are not changing the front calipers? 4 pot 131 (68 -70) calipers pull up much better than the single cuircit 3 pots.
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Old Nov 17th, 2009, 21:29   #12
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How will you mount the Wilwood pedal assembly? Will the master cylinders end up in the engine bay or in the car? I'm curious as i need to do the same thing as i have converted my Wagon to P1800ES disc rear end and big Brembo calipers on the front.
Ideally the new pedal assembly will mount where the stock master cylinders are now, but as low as possible. The one I was looking at by them (that I linked to above) would put the master cylinders in the engine bay, like the stock setup. However, the Wilwood pedal arms are much shorter than our stock pedal arms so I'm worried they won't be able to reach down far enough to work properly. I don't want to have to modify my firewall to make it work so I'm going to build a rough scale model of this Wilwood pedal assembly out of 1/4" plywood to see if it will all fit properly or not.

So if it won't work then option two will be to not use the Wilwood assembly at all and just make a new custom brake pedal arm. This custom arm would be the stock 15" length, would pivot from the stock top position, but would have the master cylinder pivot point at around 2.5" instead of the stock 3.12" to change the pedal ratio from 4.8:1 up to 6:1 ratio, and would have a large smooth bore tube welded in to allow the Wilwood balance bar to be used. Then the two new brake master cylinders would just need to be mounted about 5/8" higher up than the stock one. Honestly I'm kind of leaning towards this option since it would still look very stock and I could use the $200 that the pedal assembly would cost and put it towards other parts.

I'm interested in the front Brembo calipers you mention. Are they a readily availible bolt on from Brembo? Do you run stock rotors with them? If so a part number would be awesome.



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Originally Posted by classicswede View Post
Are not changing the front calipers? 4 pot 131 (68 -70) calipers pull up much better than the single cuircit 3 pots.
It's been pretty hard finding information on the dual circuit calipers. I'm assuming these are them for sale? Would they they bolt onto my car without problems? Do these calipers have the dual inlets designed for the dual line systems or are they single input type? Any info you can provide would be great. I'd really like to upgrade my front calipers as much as possible considering that I'm going all out everywhere else at this point.
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Old Nov 17th, 2009, 22:24   #13
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That should be the one.It will bolt on to the original fixing on the hub.It does have twin pipes on it but You can just T them togther.

When I have these calipers rebuilt I cange the pistons for slightly bigger ones to give slightly better braking.
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Old Nov 17th, 2009, 23:13   #14
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If you read through my thread you will find details of my brake caliper and rotor
upgrade

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=56733

I would be very interested in your balance bar brake pedal design. I dont think there is any room to mount the Wilwood assembly lower down. The pedal could be modified in length but that would give a ratio about 8.5:1. Is that too much?
How would you mount the Wilwood bracket? Would it fasten from above?
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Old Nov 18th, 2009, 00:01   #15
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More room on LHD thats how
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Old Nov 18th, 2009, 00:04   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicswede View Post
That should be the one.It will bolt on to the original fixing on the hub.It does have twin pipes on it but You can just T them togther.

When I have these calipers rebuilt I cange the pistons for slightly bigger ones to give slightly better braking.
Thanks for the info classicswede. So the 4 pot calipers will bolt onto my steering knuckle, but will I be able to run my stock rotors?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilline View Post
If you read through my thread you will find details of my brake caliper and rotor
upgrade

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=56733

I would be very interested in your balance bar brake pedal design. I dont think there is any room to mount the Wilwood assembly lower down. The pedal could be modified in length but that would give a ratio about 8.5:1. Is that too much?
How would you mount the Wilwood bracket? Would it fasten from above?

Thanks for the link. At this point I think I'm just going to run rebuilt stock calipers to keep it simple. At some point in the future I'd like to design a completely new front end that uses the steering knuckle from a newer car that can run a big rotor and a nice caliper, along with a custom K-member to run adjustable tubular A-arms and a rack & pinion for steering. That would be a nice upgrade.

I'm also thinking that the Wilwood assembly won't fit when mounted lower down. Most brake design articles I've read say a pedal ratio of 5:1 to 6.5:1 is the ideal range for manual brakes. Any modification of the Wilwood pedal arms would take the ratio to way over 7:1. So yeah I think the custom brake arm is the way I'm going. I'll definitely post plenty of pics and dimensions of it when I get to that point.
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Old Nov 19th, 2009, 07:07   #17
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I ordered some parts yesterday afternoon from Summit Racing Equipment and they arrived this morning! Talk about fast. The master cylinders and the balance bar all seem pretty well made. There are a few product PDFs on their site that show drawings of this balance bar, but none of them give dimensions which is pretty surprising. So I thought it'd be a good idea to post some of the more important dimensions as measured by calipers in case someone needs them as well as a pic of it mostly taken apart to show how it works.

Wilwood 340-1757 Balance Bar Assembly Dimensions
Weld tube OD = 1.251"(31.78mm)
Weld tube ID = 1.009"(25.63mm)
Weld tube length = 1.498"(38.05mm)
Spherical bearing housing OD = 0.997"(25.32mm)
Threaded pivot bar OD = 0.560"(14.22mm)
Threaded pivot bar Length = 0.930"(23.62mm)
Threaded shaft length = 4.870"(123.70mm)



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Last edited by dheming; Nov 19th, 2009 at 09:03. Reason: image size
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Old Nov 19th, 2009, 09:32   #18
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I am looking at the same balance bar from wilwood and a pair of these compact master cylinders http://www.wilwood.com/Start/PDF/Com...C-Brochure.pdf. I dont have a lot of room because the car is RHD and the injection plenum is in the way.

Is there enough clearance either side of the pedal for the balance bar? If not i was thinking of offsetting the pedal or if i must cut out the side of the pedal pivot box and extend it. What do you think?

What cylinder spacing are you going for ? 2.5"? Is it possible to reduce the threaded shaft length from 4.87" to allow more clearance. I know this would limit the amount of adjustment but would it be a problem?

By the way what did the balance bar cost over there. Here in the Uk it is £46.50, about $77.50.
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Old Nov 19th, 2009, 17:25   #19
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I dunno if this pedal box would help..cylinders are inside the car..
http://tinyurl.com/ylzjdco
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Old Nov 20th, 2009, 04:11   #20
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I went with the exact same master cylinders as well. I like how compact they are as well as being anodized black. I paid about $62 for my balance bar and about $80 each for my master cylinders. BTW I just found this nice Tilton balance bar that uses a thicker 7/16"-20 threaded rod. Stronger and cheaper, oh well too late now.

It doesn't look like there's enough clearance to mount the balance bar into the stock arm location due to the firewall. Shortening the threaded shaft will severely limit the amount of bias adjustment and I want to eventually add this accessory so I'm leaving the length alone on mine. I don't want to cut and rebuild the firewall either so I think an offset brake arm is the way to go, as you mentioned. This is the only way I can think of to mount the two master cylinders in the stock area, have the arm clear the steering column, and have the brake pedal in the proper place. I'm going to draw this whole area in Google SketchUp to see how much of an offset will be required.


amazon69,

Thanks for the suggestion, but those types won't work though due to the position of the steering column.
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Last edited by dheming; Nov 20th, 2009 at 04:15.
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4-link, big brakes, coilovers, spherical joints, wilwood brakes


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