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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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Brake System Upgrade

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Old Dec 11th, 2009, 08:41   #21
dheming
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Update: I gave up trying to learn Google SketchUp, it sucks. So I downloaded SolidWorks trial, it's awesome, and I'm slowly playing with it. In the meantime though I've just been making sketches in a notebook of various ideas. I went through about four different designs and finally hit upon something I'm pretty happy with. Input and/or comments on it's design are welcome:






The scanner picked up a page of notes behind unfortunately. So the main body is 2.5" x 2.5" x 0.120" square tube. The recessed cavity is 2" x 2" x 0.120" square tube. Upper pivot tube is 1" OD x 0.834" ID seamless, middle tube is the 1.25" OD x 1.01" ID that came with the balance bar, and lower tube is of course the steering column. The bottom angle is 2.5" x 2.5" x 0.1875". The brake arm itself is 0.1875" x 1.25" and while not shown in the drawings will be bolted at the top to the assembly and curved toward the seat down by the pedal. This arm will be water jet cut from a cold rolled steel for strength. I ordered most of the materials from onlinemetals.com and received them the other day:



I'm going to start on it tomorrow and hopefully get everything cut to size. I don't have access to a mill so I'm going to be doing this the hard way with a drill press, hole saws, angle grinder, hacksaw, etc. I do have a horizontal bandsaw at least which is an absolute must for metal projects. Hopefully once it's all tack welded together it will fit the pedal box the way I'm hoping, guess I'll find out how good my measurements were.

In other news I was directed to local Volvo parts guy who has an 1800 rearend for me and I should be going to go pick it up next week. Also a few days ago I picked up a nice used set of 16" Volvo Hydra wheels which will be a nice upgrade from my rusty steel wheels and worn out tires.
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'67 Amazon 220 - B18D M40
'92 Silverado - 350 5spd
"Why is it that there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it again?"

Last edited by dheming; Dec 11th, 2009 at 08:47.
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Old Dec 13th, 2009, 09:53   #22
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I'm researching various options for better front rotors and calipers and have a few questions for those more knowledgeable. Does anyone know if the 2 circuit 1800 bearing hub will work on the 1 circuit 122 spindle/steering knuckle? I could just drill my stock hub, but that 1800 hub already has the 5 x 108mm bolt pattern I need.

I'd definitely like to run vented rotors and I'm considering using the 960's 287mm x 22mm rotor. Thing is the 960 uses a single piston slider caliper and I'd much rather use a multi-piston fixed caliper instead. The 240 uses a 4 piston fixed caliper, but it's made for a 263mm rotor. Does anyone know if the 12mm disc radius difference would cause problems?
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'67 Amazon 220 - B18D M40
'92 Silverado - 350 5spd
"Why is it that there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it again?"

Last edited by dheming; Dec 13th, 2009 at 10:31.
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Old Dec 13th, 2009, 10:21   #23
Khe Sanh
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Do you have an idea what force each caliper will apply? If so torque is force x distance so if you know the applied force by each caliper times that by their respective radius and that will tell you which system has the best breaking force. I assume that is how it's worked out.
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Old Dec 13th, 2009, 10:35   #24
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I think I may have misunderstood your question. I think you are asking about using a 240 caliper on a 960 rotor?
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Old Dec 13th, 2009, 10:52   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch1971 View Post
I think I may have misunderstood your question. I think you are asking about using a 240 caliper on a 960 rotor?
Yup, ideally I'd like to run the 4 piston 240 caliper on the 960 rotor.

I just found a thread talking about using an aluminum Mazda RX7 Turbo II caliper with 940/960 rotors on a 240: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=68630
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'67 Amazon 220 - B18D M40
'92 Silverado - 350 5spd
"Why is it that there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it again?"
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Old Dec 13th, 2009, 11:44   #26
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The caliper they're using in the above thread is from the '86 to '91 2nd gen 5 lug turbo or NA Mazda RX7. It's a 4 piston non-staggered bore cast aluminum caliper designed to run with a 276 x 22mm rotor and 15" wheels. So it combined with the 287 x 22mm 740/760/940/960 rotor there is only a 5.5mm radius difference. This is definitely the route I'm going since all the parts are so cheap and will fit inside my new wheels. All I need to do now is fab up an aluminum adapter bracket to hang the caliper.
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'67 Amazon 220 - B18D M40
'92 Silverado - 350 5spd
"Why is it that there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it again?"
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Old Dec 14th, 2009, 08:01   #27
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I've narrowed it down to three aftermarket 287 x 22mm Volvo rotors:

Brembo BR25287 - $47.75 These look like a simple but high quality vented rotor. Their only interesting attribute is that they're "Made of high carbon cast iron...With better damping factor that reduces noise and vibrations."

Centric CE120.39014 - $42.34 These are interesting because they're a 2 piece floating type rotor for a great price. Of the group these are the ones I'll probably go with. I just wish it was slotted, which brings me to:

ATE W0133-1613244 - $62.95 These have a really nice slot pattern and seem to be overall nice quality. Only problem is that I can't verify what actual size they are and the manufacturers site isn't much help nor is Google. I spent just 40 minutes with a thepartsbin.com agent through their "Live Help" feature only to find out that they don't actually know what size it is and that I should just use the Brembo part above that I gave her as a cross reference... Great, thanks for the help. So I just sent an email to someone at ATE asking if they might be so kind as to give me a part number for the size rotor I need. Considering how lousy their product information support is I'm not very hopeful, I shouldn't have to work this hard to find simple product specs. So again I'm kinda leaning towards the Centric 2 piece.
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'67 Amazon 220 - B18D M40
'92 Silverado - 350 5spd
"Why is it that there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it again?"

Last edited by dheming; Dec 14th, 2009 at 08:03.
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Old Dec 14th, 2009, 23:17   #28
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This is all good stuff. I like your thorough approach and attention to detail. Couple of comments:

I guess you already know that 164E vented discs and 4-pot calipers will bolt straight on to the Amazon? (At least, I've been reliably told they will - not done it personally).

I did a similar brake upgrade to my Scimitar. I converted the rear drums to discs (Rover discs, Ford calipers, home-made brackets) and fitted Wilwood vented discs and calipers. I used twin separate Wilwood master cylinders with a remote adjustable balance bar, all mounted inside the car on a home-made pedal box similar to yours.

It all worked and was worth the effort.

I can also confirm that you don't need a servo (booster). If you calculate the cylinder/piston ratios carefully (taking into account estimates of dynamic weight distribution pedal leverage of course) you will have strong, easy to use brakes with light pedal prsssure and no need for a servo.

Look forward to more updates

Good luck

John
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Old Dec 14th, 2009, 23:52   #29
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164 discs will not fit. Amazon has discs secured to the back of the hub where the 164's fit over the front and are a different PCD to the amazon.
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Old Dec 15th, 2009, 00:36   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicswede View Post
164 discs will not fit. Amazon has discs secured to the back of the hub where the 164's fit over the front and are a different PCD to the amazon.
Hi Dai, whilst we're on the subject of brakes, any sign of the servo I bought from you off ebay some 6 months ago, paid for promptly & am still waiting for!
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4-link, big brakes, coilovers, spherical joints, wilwood brakes


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