P1800S (2 litre, 1969) For Sale - £8,750

[capt jack]

......but were I to be thinking of parting with top dollar for this car I'd be asking why....

1. The rear bumpers are from an early 'cow horn' car, whilst the front are correct for a 1968/9 model. There should be black plastic inserts in both front and rear bumpers, and the bumpers should have the later type flat profile.

2. Where the black plastic spats have gone from the leading edges of the rear wheel arches.

3. Why the B20 engine badge is in the wrong place on the front grille

4. Why the door cards are a different colour to the seats.

5. What makes a 1969 2-litre 1800S a rare version - they were all 2-litre engines!

It may be that there are perfectly reasonable explanantions for all these oddities, but this is a lot of money being asked here. Cars being offered at this level are rightly subject to the greatest scrutiny. A car in original condition with a sound provenance probably is worth well north of £8k. A well-restored car, with substantial documentary supporting evidence, is also going to command a pretty high price. If a specialist interest car like this is offered for sale on the Owners Club web pages then the vendor has to expect lots of searching questions.

The drivers door I agree does look a bit odd in the photos, but then again that may very well be a simple photographical illusion. There are a lot of compound curves in an 1800.

Jack

[pettaw]

Less of the 'Internet Tough Guy' please. Thanks.

[brucelee34]

CAPT JACK: Strangely enough, I have later bumpers on my 64'. I emailed the original poster and said i'd do a swap and then we'd both have the correct bumpers on our car. before this forum i guess some 1800s owners would aquire spare parts that may be from a later or earlier car and not really know too much about it. i didn;t know my number plate light was from a jensen model until it was pointed out that I had no reverse light.

[tdz840]

[QUOTE=capt jack;688607

5. What makes a 1969 2-litre 1800S a rare version - they were all 2-litre engines!

Jack[/QUOTE]

It was the first year they used the B20 (B18 before that) but with HS6 carbs and also had the dual cct brakes from the later versions. I understand this version only ran for a year but it retains the original dash, fuel filler on back panel etc. The 1800E that followed in 1970 had a number of upgrades that for some people enhanced the car and for others detracted.
I like the alloy dash and unique gauges but prefer the center console and injected engine of the 1800E. I also like the fuel filler on the back panel but recognise that comes with its own issues!
Horses for courses really
Russ

[amazondean]

Well, this post is like the house of commons. I have read all the posts again and i have to say that my first reply did come across as harsh and i give a full apology for being presumptuous about the car and if i am honest I was a little annoyed that it may be another car dressed up to look better than it actualy is. So there you are. I am sorry for that and next time i will be a little more subtle in how i go about my questions. The car on the whole does look pretty decent.

However, what i will not apologise for is having a free opinion on something and as people have seen, i am not afraid to say what i know i have experience in dealing with. I am not on hear to fall out with anyone and i hope i have helped others in the past with valuable information and i will carry on doing so, but i will try to be more diplomatic about it. I get a little wound up because i have seen quite a few piles of scrap dressed up for sale many times. Infact i would say at least 80% of what i have seen should only be priced at restoration money because that is what they will end up being when the new owners start digging and find out it is going to cost several thousend pounds to sort out. Its not just about rust, its about very badly repaired panels that require copious buckets of filler to make the car look right and i do mean buckets. Actualy i don't have a problem with badly repaired cars as long as the price reflects the real condition,as some badley repaired cars can look good for some considerable time if kept dry stored.

Dean

[tdz840]

Sometimes its worth rereading posts as the written word is far more explosive than the spoken one. Expressions, body language and just a smile go a fair way in deflating what appears to be derogatory statements. Obviously difficult on a forum but a smiley/expression does go some way in helping the situation .
I was at a volvo show and caught someone (flat cap, pipe and beard) expressing the opinion that the car had been bodged due to the fact that the seams had been filled.
Too many Stags with corroding front seams taught me the lesson when you are replacing panels with seams its good practice to lead load them. After all in most cases that is what the factory typically did on the first few prototypes. I also took pictures of the process if ever a next owner takes ownership(Begs the question though how well do magnets stick to lead??!).
The boot lids/doors are also notoriously difficult to seat if new seals have been fitted. I spent hours with shims to no avail; one year later everything has settled in nicely.
My door also often sits on the 'first' latch, on closing, creating a gap but in this case it appears the top has closed but the bottom is still exposed.
Perhaps a simple job of shimming will sort that out (PO put shims in the top hinge rather than the bottom??)
Russ

[capt jack]

Originally Posted by pettaw

Less of the 'Internet Tough Guy' please. Thanks.

So, considered, factually accurate technical questions posted and signed on an owners club web forum condemn me as an 'Internet Tough Guy'!

But clearly it's OK to post laconic ungrammatical unsigned name-calling one-liners.

That's put me in my place then!

Cheers

Jack

[foggyjames]

I'm not sure that was aimed at you, Jack. I think various people needed to take a deep breath and reflect on the direction in which the thread was heading. I'm pleased to say that I think that has happened.

For what it's worth, I think it is inevitable that cars being sold for what is perceived to be "generous" money will be critiqued. Recently, someone has been trying to sell a ~1984 360 GLT for £3k-odd. Various people have stated that they think the seller is having a laugh. I mentioned that while it is significantly more expensive than any other 360 I've seen sell in the last few years...*if* it really is that good, it's perhaps not such poor value, as I will have spent more on the restoration work on my 343 by the time it's finished. However, for that original car to represent better value than my restored car...it really *must be* just as good.

At that point, I think it's an important part of the function of an owner's group to comment if they feel the car may not be as good as is advertised and there's a danger that a fellow enthusiast looking to buy the car might end up disadvantaged. It's not dissimilar to someone commenting that a modern car might have been clocked. Modern cars are mainly priced (within their market) on age and mileage, so if one of those is mis-represented, it has the potential to significantly skew the value. Older cars tend to be sold mainly on condition, so (to take a more extreme example), a superficially clean but rusty (on closer inspection) 1800 is not really worth £2-3000 if a similar car wearing a coat of many colours is worth £800. Of course there's the small matter of mileage adjustment being illegal, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

As Dean has acknowledged, the important thing is that that critiquing is done quite carefully, as there is the potential to cause great offence when discussing someone's pride & joy.

Hopefully now people going to view Christopher's car have a few things to look at more closely...and they may well decide that they're nothing to worry about, and that the car is well worth the money.

Peace and harmony restored...?

cheers

James

[pettaw]

Yes, I'm sorry. I left a word out.....everyone. It was a general post aimed at calming down the internet tough guy attitude shown and not an individual telling off aimed at one person. If we were to tell someone off / issue warnings etc then we would normally do that via PM rather than on the open forums. I should have made that clearer and I'm sorry about that.

[amazon69]

I think it's vitally important that people should be able to express their opinions on here, good or bad. If a prospective buyer cannot get an holistic overview of a car from the members of the owners' club forum then where will they get it? No point in getting your knickers in a twist over someone else's remarks on someone else's car, surely.

If I didn't know owt about p1800's such info would be golden.

Nice colour