Seriously?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

We see these very long term advertising campaigns - over months and even years - quite frequently Dave. I suppose there is always a chance of finding a punter at an absurd price, but with something like a Volvo 244 the pool of punters will be pretty small. It seems (to me) that the group of people looking for a 40ish year old 244DL in poor condition and in need of renovation may be measured in tens across the nation at any time. It is hard for me to imagine those few tens of people will not have all done their homework and have noticed the nasty brown car for sale at all sorts of prices and probably discounted it.

I’m just curious about prices and values, I think the brown car is rubbish and would not consider it.

Alan

Indeed Alan, the pool of potential 244 buyers is pretty small, i'd probably have guess at a few hundred rather than a few tens but either figure is academic really, in the great scheme of things it's a pretty small target audience. That said i'm including all potential 244 buyers, not just those seeking a resto project.

A bit bored earlier i had a trawl through ebay looking at Lexus LS400s, V8s in general and older Rovers in general.

A couple of years back an average LS400 with MoT would struggle to make a grand, now there's a (supposed) non-runner out of MoT currently on £730 with 5-6 days to go. Looking at the photo of the fuel guage, i strongly suspect 4 gallons of Ultimate unleaded and 2L of meths would soon have that car running fairly sweetly but that aside, it still needs an MoT and having been stood for 2 years (according to the listing) is likely to have at least some problems.

I also spotted a barn find Range Rover V8 ambulance (originally a St John Ambulance) going fairly cheaply but with a long time to run. Manual though so off my radar.

Lastly, i found a 1990 820Se 16v that is allegedly one owner from new and further allegedly, completely original. The wheels are at least 6 years younger than the car as the style wasn't available until 1996 and the model in question originally had steelies with wheel trims. So much for completely original!
It had plenty of bids and still a long while to run so looks like it will sell for a good price but i'm amazed at what sellers think they can get away with and even more amazed at how prices have shot up in the couple of months since i last looked!

Maybe the Turdmobile (brown 244) will find a buyer, i just hope they have a good welder and are on friendly terms with their local BOC depot to get an industrial sized bottle of Argoshield!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Maybe the Turdmobile (brown 244) will find a buyer, i just hope they have a good welder and are on friendly terms with their local BOC depot to get an industrial sized bottle of Argoshield!

Turdmobile - I like that Dave :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Turdmobile - I like that Dave :-)

It's the right colour Alan and polishing it won't help!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

A bit bored earlier i had a trawl through ebay looking at Lexus LS400s, V8s in general and older Rovers in general.

A couple of years back an average LS400 with MoT would struggle to make a grand, now there's a (supposed) non-runner out of MoT currently on £730 with 5-6 days to go. Looking at the photo of the fuel guage, i strongly suspect 4 gallons of Ultimate unleaded and 2L of meths would soon have that car running fairly sweetly but that aside, it still needs an MoT and having been stood for 2 years (according to the listing) is likely to have at least some problems.

I also spotted a barn find Range Rover V8 ambulance (originally a St John Ambulance) going fairly cheaply but with a long time to run. Manual though so off my radar.

Lastly, i found a 1990 820Se 16v that is allegedly one owner from new and further allegedly, completely original. The wheels are at least 6 years younger than the car as the style wasn't available until 1996 and the model in question originally had steelies with wheel trims. So much for completely original!
It had plenty of bids and still a long while to run so looks like it will sell for a good price but i'm amazed at what sellers think they can get away with and even more amazed at how prices have shot up in the couple of months since i last looked!

EBay is indeed good for passing dull moments - my current yen is for a cheap Bentley Continental GT, a bit like this one that just sold for about £14,000:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154488266...53.m1438.l2649

... a huge amount of car for the money :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

EBay is indeed good for passing dull moments - my current yen is for a cheap Bentley Continental GT, a bit like this one that just sold for about £14,000:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154488266...53.m1438.l2649

... a huge amount of car for the money :-)

First, talk to Luke about Bentleys! Second, there's no such thing as a "cheap" Bentley (or Roller for that matter) as there is a reason that it's cheap.

Usually that reason is lack of maintenance usually due to parts and labour costs. With cars such as these, particularly the older versions, inadequate maintenance can precipitate all kinds of horrible things happening - invariably it costs so much more to put these things right than it would have cost you for a good car with full RR/Bentley service history and all known faults sorted before the sale.

The really annoying bit about it is often many of the parts used by the Crewe cars are in fact the same as many other cheaper cars. For example, i needed a new Crank Position Sensor for my 760 some time back. Lo and behold the same sensor was used on a variety of other cars, one of them being a Kia and they could get me the sensor the same day for about £57 inc VAT, Ferrari £OUCH! + a 3 week wait from Italy and several others including the RR/Bentley models from around the same time. I didn't phone them to enquire on the cost of a new CPS from them but can imagine it began with a £1 and ended in 000 or more. Just because of a fancy bag/box.
Got one for about £18 (Intermotor) on fleabay with next day delivery in the end.

Many other parts are from other cars too, ashtrays for example (on the same era car as above) are from a Series I/II/III Jag XJ as are the remote drivers door mirrors plus countless other parts that have been branded RR/Bentley but are in fact the same as many "common cars".

[360beast]

Grrrrrrr Continental GT's!!!!! They bring back some bad memories.

I spent three years working at an independent Rolls Royce and Bentley garage, there was a revolving door on the front for the mechanics 50% cause of how hard and sh1t the cars were and 50% because of the absolutely awful management. The GT that sold for 14k sold so for a reason, they aren't normally that cheap and when they are it is for a reason.

Parts are stupidly expensive, repairs are difficult and require specialist knowledge.

Some common faults:

Front passenger floor bung falls out allowing the footwell too flood where the keyless entry and start system ECU is housed ending in a no start, wet carpets and an expensive bill.

The suspension and alarms etc constantly monitor themselves so the 2! Batteries go flat, the car locks itself and you essentially have to break in to them, several times I had to go to customers cars and gain entry to a deadlocked car.

Air suspension struts at this age are starting to fail regularly, leaking air out of the seals.

Have to have genuine Bentley batteries fitted, anything else can risk electrical gremlins, in the end if we had one in with electrical issues and it wasn't a genuine battery we would fit one to see if it cured the issues, more often than not it did! And those massive AGM Bentley batteries are NOT cheap and fitting them is a ball ache and usually involves getting one or several fingers crushed as they're crammed in to the side pockets in the boot.

To change the spark plugs you have to lift up the "crab shell" on top of the engine gently and prop it up, lift it too far and you risk snapping one of the many vacuum pipes on the back... replacement of those is an engine out job.

Quite a lot of engine repairs when you look at the Bentley data it will say "engine removal required" and you even need a special hydraulic "table" to go under the engine/subframe to remove them!

Handbrake motor housings crack on the rear calipers allowing moisture in to rot the aluminium components inside, requires a new handbrake. If you don't clean the sealing face thoroughly when fitting the new ones the O-ring won't fit properly and you risk cracking the new one, never done it myself but I have seen it done several times.

They have fault codes all the time.

They're deafeningly loud when stood outside them and they don't even sound nice.

Exhaust variable flap motors seize up/rattle, that's right they have a flap that lets them be louder on initial start up, can't see the point as when they're seized closed they start fine, probably just to draw more attention to you as you start it up in the Waitrose car park.

I drove one very gently for 30 miles and got 14mpg.

I drove one not so gently and got 8mpg.

You can't see anything out of them when driving.

Not particularly comfortable no matter how much I messed around I could never get a comfy position.

Front suspension is the exact same as the Audi/VW equivalent and the top arm bushes wear out for fun.

Wheel alignment is a pain, the camber and castor "isn't" adjustable and they're never in spec, we used to slacken the subframe bolts off and use a massive pry bar to move the subframe to get them somewhere near spec.

TPM batteries require replacement ever few years and again you need genuine ones which aren't cheap.

Parts are already being discontinued for them as they're older than 10 years.

Radiators are starting to fail quite often which involves a lot of work including the front bumper off and special locking pins to rest the front slam panel on when you start taking it all apart.

Headlights are starting to fail, replacement requires taking the wing off.

Tyres are stupidly expensive

Built in navigation/stereo systems are starting to fail or the aerial in the roof is which requires the side trim removing, Sun visors out and the headlining to be dropped down.

High level brake lights fail, they have a plastic lip that sits under the bonded rear windscreen so you have to use a sharp knife to cut the lip off. Remove all the old glue, paint the area you've just scratched the hell out of the paint so it doesn't rust, then you have to remove the wiring from inside the car and poke a hole through the bonding to get the wires out. Then you have to make the hole bigger and take the wires to something strong so you can poke it through the black sticky goo to get the new wires inside all while trying not to get black goo on the usually cream interior. The new brake lights IIRC don't have the lip or if they so you have to cut it off then fill the hole with the wires with sikaflex then use the same to bond the new brake light in before taking it down and hoping it doesn't shift while it dries. I saw one once where the mechanic hadn't cleaned all the old glue out so the brake light sat higher on one side! Also it requires the removal of the headlining to get to the wires.

I could keep going but I think that's about enough.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

First, talk to Luke about Bentleys! Second, there's no such thing as a "cheap" Bentley (or Roller for that matter) as there is a reason that it's cheap.

Usually that reason is lack of maintenance usually due to parts and labour costs. With cars such as these, particularly the older versions, inadequate maintenance can precipitate all kinds of horrible things happening - invariably it costs so much more to put these things right than it would have cost you for a good car with full RR/Bentley service history and all known faults sorted before the sale.

The really annoying bit about it is often many of the parts used by the Crewe cars are in fact the same as many other cheaper cars. For example, i needed a new Crank Position Sensor for my 760 some time back. Lo and behold the same sensor was used on a variety of other cars, one of them being a Kia and they could get me the sensor the same day for about £57 inc VAT, Ferrari £OUCH! + a 3 week wait from Italy and several others including the RR/Bentley models from around the same time. I didn't phone them to enquire on the cost of a new CPS from them but can imagine it began with a £1 and ended in 000 or more. Just because of a fancy bag/box.
Got one for about £18 (Intermotor) on fleabay with next day delivery in the end.

Many other parts are from other cars too, ashtrays for example (on the same era car as above) are from a Series I/II/III Jag XJ as are the remote drivers door mirrors plus countless other parts that have been branded RR/Bentley but are in fact the same as many "common cars".

Originally Posted by 360beast

Grrrrrrr Continental GT's!!!!! They bring back some bad memories.

I spent three years working at an independent Rolls Royce and Bentley garage, there was a revolving door on the front for the mechanics 50% cause of how hard and sh1t the cars were and 50% because of the absolutely awful management. The GT that sold for 14k sold so for a reason, they aren't normally that cheap and when they are it is for a reason.

Parts are stupidly expensive, repairs are difficult and require specialist knowledge.

Some common faults:

Front passenger floor bung falls out allowing the footwell too flood where the keyless entry and start system ECU is housed ending in a no start, wet carpets and an expensive bill.

The suspension and alarms etc constantly monitor themselves so the 2! Batteries go flat, the car locks itself and you essentially have to break in to them, several times I had to go to customers cars and gain entry to a deadlocked car.

Air suspension struts at this age are starting to fail regularly, leaking air out of the seals.

Have to have genuine Bentley batteries fitted, anything else can risk electrical gremlins, in the end if we had one in with electrical issues and it wasn't a genuine battery we would fit one to see if it cured the issues, more often than not it did! And those massive AGM Bentley batteries are NOT cheap and fitting them is a ball ache and usually involves getting one or several fingers crushed as they're crammed in to the side pockets in the boot.

To change the spark plugs you have to lift up the "crab shell" on top of the engine gently and prop it up, lift it too far and you risk snapping one of the many vacuum pipes on the back... replacement of those is an engine out job.

Quite a lot of engine repairs when you look at the Bentley data it will say "engine removal required" and you even need a special hydraulic "table" to go under the engine/subframe to remove them!

Handbrake motor housings crack on the rear calipers allowing moisture in to rot the aluminium components inside, requires a new handbrake. If you don't clean the sealing face thoroughly when fitting the new ones the O-ring won't fit properly and you risk cracking the new one, never done it myself but I have seen it done several times.

They have fault codes all the time.

They're deafeningly loud when stood outside them and they don't even sound nice.

Exhaust variable flap motors seize up/rattle, that's right they have a flap that lets them be louder on initial start up, can't see the point as when they're seized closed they start fine, probably just to draw more attention to you as you start it up in the Waitrose car park.

I drove one very gently for 30 miles and got 14mpg.

I drove one not so gently and got 8mpg.

You can't see anything out of them when driving.

Not particularly comfortable no matter how much I messed around I could never get a comfy position.

Front suspension is the exact same as the Audi/VW equivalent and the top arm bushes wear out for fun.

Wheel alignment is a pain, the camber and castor "isn't" adjustable and they're never in spec, we used to slacken the subframe bolts off and use a massive pry bar to move the subframe to get them somewhere near spec.

TPM batteries require replacement ever few years and again you need genuine ones which aren't cheap.

Parts are already being discontinued for them as they're older than 10 years.

Radiators are starting to fail quite often which involves a lot of work including the front bumper off and special locking pins to rest the front slam panel on when you start taking it all apart.

Headlights are starting to fail, replacement requires taking the wing off.

Tyres are stupidly expensive

Built in navigation/stereo systems are starting to fail or the aerial in the roof is which requires the side trim removing, Sun visors out and the headlining to be dropped down.

High level brake lights fail, they have a plastic lip that sits under the bonded rear windscreen so you have to use a sharp knife to cut the lip off. Remove all the old glue, paint the area you've just scratched the hell out of the paint so it doesn't rust, then you have to remove the wiring from inside the car and poke a hole through the bonding to get the wires out. Then you have to make the hole bigger and take the wires to something strong so you can poke it through the black sticky goo to get the new wires inside all while trying not to get black goo on the usually cream interior. The new brake lights IIRC don't have the lip or if they so you have to cut it off then fill the hole with the wires with sikaflex then use the same to bond the new brake light in before taking it down and hoping it doesn't shift while it dries. I saw one once where the mechanic hadn't cleaned all the old glue out so the brake light sat higher on one side! Also it requires the removal of the headlining to get to the wires.

I could keep going but I think that's about enough.

Wonderful!

Dave, of course I know things are never cheap unless there is a reason. That isn't the point of this current yen though - I don't need most of the things I have (Porsche, Volvo 244, Triumph, Royal Enfield, CCM, Suzuki, shotguns, lots of air rifles and pistols... the list could go on) - but I still enjoy them, that is all.

Luke, thank you for that sobering breath of reality. You should get off the fence and say what you really think about second hand Bentleys!!!

Thank you both: I think you have quelled my yen for a second hand Bentley Continental GT before it became dangerous!

:-)

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Wonderful!

Dave, of course I know things are never cheap unless there is a reason. That isn't the point of this current yen though - I don't need most of the things I have (Porsche, Volvo 244, Triumph, Royal Enfield, CCM, Suzuki, shotguns, lots of air rifles and pistols... the list could go on) - but I still enjoy them, that is all.

Luke, thank you for that sobering breath of reality. You should get off the fence and say what you really think about second hand Bentleys!!!

Thank you both: I think you have quelled my yen for a second hand Bentley Continental GT before it became dangerous!

:-)

Alan

The words "Bentley Continental GT" are actually a confused anagram of "Financial Black Hole" where your bank account contents enter, never to be seen again!

I know you don't need one and i get the "itch that needs scratching" idea but there are some itches should be left well and truly alone! Glad to hear you've shelved the idea!

[loki_the_glt]

Have Bentley sorted out the paint problems yet?

Apart from the handful of minor issues identified by Luke there doesn't seem to be any reason NOT to buy one.

As used to be said of Jaguars, most people bought a second example so they had a chance of being able to use one of them!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

As used to be said of Jaguars, most people bought a second example so they had a chance of being able to use one of them!

I have a biking mate who has two Ducati for exactly that reason, he also runs an old BMW flat twin for the times when neither Ducati is running (Ducati are very much an acquired taste - one I never enjoyed).