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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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6 to 12v conversion

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Old Feb 15th, 2020, 18:09   #21
arcturus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Kwas View Post
arcturus;

I don't quite understand your question, but essentially, you need Ign power to supply the DR, and this in-turn supplies the Instrument. Where you get Ign power from is non-critical, so it could certainly come from Fuseblock, but since Ign power wires need to be removed from Inst. anyway, they are (already!) right there, so it makes sense (is simplest!) to reuse them to supply DR, as shown in my sketch.

I hope that answers your question, and makes it a bit clearer.

Cheers
My plan is to splice in the DR at the wire as shown where it connects to the fuse box as it is easily accessible there. Trying to do so at the instrument is a real PITA as it's tucked up behind the dash where you can't get at it. That was what I was trying to ask in a previous post if the other things which the power serves, ie the oil pressure light and the directional signal impulse unit would be affect by the DR being there.I hope that makes it clearer. My previous post with the photo of the connection was to confirm that the method of splicing was acceptable
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 13:10   #22
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Completed all conversion to12 volt except for battery.Previous 85 amp. confirm that replacement 12 volt still 85 amp please.
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 13:20   #23
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Basically, whatever you can get that fits bearing in mind that the PV battery shelf isn't very deep. Extra amps always good but having them available for cold weather starts shouldn't be a problem for you. Terminal post position and +/- orientation has to be considered.
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 13:23   #24
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6V x 85A = 510W

510W / 12V = 42.5A

I'd suggest a 45A/h battery or slightly above, anything up to 60A/h would be fine but make sure your dynamo/alternator has a decent output in A to cope with a bigger battery.

If i knew what dynamo you currently have, i could probably suggest an alternator conversionbut that would almst certainly need a negative earth conversion too.
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 14:54   #25
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Arcturus;

I'd see about fitting a 60AHr (which is rating called for in the manual for a 122...don't know about a 12V 544!), but if it is difficult fitting this, you can certainly go with a lower AHr rating which will make Battery smaller...that just means less Starting Reserve energy available, but you're in a warm area where you are not cranking at well below freezing...heck, auto-crossers, where it's all about weight, install tiny motorcycle Batteries, and Start on a Helper Battery in the pits before a run...don't forget, once spinning, the Alt supplies ALL energy needed by the car's systems, and any output capacity left over serves to charge Bat, so varying the size of Bat doesn't affect much at all while driving...it only determines how fast Alt output brings it back to fully charged...[the smaller AH rating, the faster the energy bucket is refilled]. See also: https://www.sw-em.com/Battery%20Note...ery_parameters

I do recommend ~60A output rating (and no greater) for the Alt, be it a Bosch with integral VReg, (like from a 240 Series) mounted on cast-in Pivot on late B18, or all B20, OR an added-on Bracket, which ipd supplies. See: https://www.sw-em.com/altkit_additio...n_B18_and_B20s
...OR a Delco, also with internal VReg of similar output rating, mounted on a bracket which I can supply. Choice of Alt is a function of availability and serviceability in your area...for Portugal, I would expect you to prefer the Bosch.

LS; "cope with a bigger battery" is not a parameter of concern...Batteries are not sized by the Alt output, they are sized by Starting requirements and Reserve Rating, and for a standard (no special requirements like arctic or min weight) application, a 60A output Alt has gobs of extra output beyond what the vehicle uses to recharge a 60AHr Bat after Starting! ...and there is no issue with Positive chassis on vintage Volvos (thankfully!)...even the 6V vehicles had a Neg chassis, so wiring is not affected.

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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 15:15   #26
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Quote:
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LS; "cope with a bigger battery" is not a parameter of concern...Batteries are not sized by the Alt output, they are sized by Starting requirements and Reserve Rating, and for a standard (no special requirements like arctic or min weight) application, a 60A output Alt has gobs of extra output beyond what the vehicle uses to recharge a 60AHr Bat after Starting! ...and there is no issue with Positive chassis on vintage Volvos (thankfully!)...even the 6V vehicles had a Neg chassis, so wiring is not affected.

Cheers
Strangely enough Ron i know all that, having a Diploma in Automotive Electrical Systems and degree-equivalent in Electrical & Electronic Engineering.

Once up and running with no extra load (eg lights, heater etc) the current needs of the car will be relatively small, <10A so a 22A output dynamo will be ok. However, start adding lights, heater, possibly wipers etc to the mix and it won't. A 35A alternator won't fare much better and if a 60A/h battery is calling for 30A to recharge it and the car needs 10A, a 35A alternator will fall short - in other words isn't able to cope with a bigger battery.

The op (Arcturus) informed me earlier in the thread the car was +ve earth, given most Volvo alternators have insulated brackets through the mounting bushes, it should be possible to add a later Volvo alternator to a +ve earth car but care must be taken. Using an alternator with an external rectifier and regulator would be a way round it but again, care must be taken to ensure it is wired correctly.

As for the battery suggestion of about 43A/H, that is simple Ohms Law - 6V @85A is 510W as stated in the first line of my post - the rest is there. If it's a 1600cc car (which i think was mentioned - B16 - somewhere, a 45A/h battery will be more than sufficient to start it, especially in warmer climes like Portugal.

I'm surprised you don't already know all this, i've seen many of your posts and you're very knowledgeable.
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 15:26   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
6V x 85A = 510W

510W / 12V = 42.5A

I'd suggest a 45A/h battery or slightly above, anything up to 60A/h would be fine but make sure your dynamo/alternator has a decent output in A to cope with a bigger battery.
+1.

Except, if you want to be really pedantic, the unit you should use for expressing battery capacity is Amp-hr, Ah, or the like (amps times hour, not amps per hour).

A 12v battery having the same capacity (i.e. work-performing storage) as a 6v battery need have only half the Amp-hr rating. My 12v Amazon runs on a 53 Amp-hr battery without any problems (although the handbook - for the B20 - specifies 60 Amp-hr).
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 15:33   #28
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+1.

Except, if you want to be really pedantic, the unit you should use for expressing battery capacity is Amp-hr, Ah, or the like (amps times hour, not amps per hour).
It works both ways round, a 60AH battery can deliver 10A for 6 hrs before it gets to a certain point (which i have to confess i can't remember just now but should, in theory, be enough to still start the car from cold) or 6A for 10hrs so in this particular case, multiplication or division is commutative in as much as both would apply to the ultimate outcome.
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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 15:44   #29
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Simon, LS;

I am electrically qualified, so I'll be happy to discuss the finer points of the automotive elec sys, and product of Amps and Hours under us...my intent was to make it clear to op that Battery size is not specified as a function of Alt output rating, which the phrase "cope with a bigger battery" suggests.

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Old Feb 25th, 2020, 15:58   #30
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I thought you might be Ron but i've seen too many people fit an alternator in the belief that it will cope with anything to older vehicles and a huge battery and then discover to their horror that because their journeys are mainly low speed and short that the alternator isn't charging the battery. With a bigger battery (in terms of AH or A/h depending how you want to view it), this problem is exacerbated. A bit like when people are sold "Calcium Technology" batteries for cars that were only ever intended to use the standar lead-acid battery with lead-antimony on the plates to inhibit sulphation and not silver-calcium which requires a higher charging voltage to commence charging.

It's also plain to see the OP is doing this on a budget and there's nothing wrong with that but a larger battery is going to cost disproportionately more than a battery that will still be sufficient to power all he needs.

You see, when i said what i said, i wasn't just taking the technical side of things into account but also what i'd gleaned not only from this thread but from the OP himself and found the easiest words that would convey the idea to someone who expressed confusion as to the best place to fit a series resistor between two points. In other words, not electrically minded.

I'm sure i'd not doing him a disservice with those comments and apologies if so, however that's the opinion i had formed and did my best to accommodate without being patronising but giving the basic information in a form most people can accept and understand, even if there's a little "poetic licence" in the phrasology of it.
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