ETS Light - ETM failure -> Volvo US admits to problem.

[oilburner]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not happy to spend the money, I'm just being realistic here.

We all must have seen the Watchdog report on the Audi TT dash failure last night, note how one guy completely lost power on the Motorway due to the fuel guage not reading correctly. He safely made it back to the hard shoulder with no power at all. With a little power it would have been even less drama.

You see, I just think we're blowing this ETM issue out of proportion. Yes it's bad news, yes it's expensive, but it's not the end of the world as some seem to think.

Note that Audi are only replacing the Dash "pod" free for cars up to 5 years old, after that you're on your own! No doubt the replacements are just as useless. There was no mention of re-design either. It just goes to show that other manufacturers really are no better/worse than Volvo.

I just don't buy this attitude that somehow Volvo are treating us all so badly, they're treating us like any other company would, that's how it is.

Sorry I have an opnion which doesn't follow the herd, but I honestly believe that some people are letting issues like ETMs (and D5 injector failures for that matter) spoil their whole enjoyment of the cars, even putting them off the Volvo brand, when really it's just one of those things that happens these days. Modern cars are very complex but generally reliable. When they do go wrong it tends to be expensive and troublesome, fact of life. I hope this situation can improve, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it in the meantime.

And no, I don't work for Volvo, I'm just fed up of people constantly having a go at them, like they expect perfection or something. I'd rather be positive about the car's strengths than spend my time worrying about it's problems.

You don't think the ETM failure causes injury.... well mine did. I was overtaking when the significantly decreased and almost caused a major accident on the A1. I was then forced off the road and my 8 year old daughter was nearly smashed in the rear. This forcing off the road in order to prevent a collision that would have seriously injured my daughter and I, caused me to go into labour at 22 weeks. I have spent several weeks in hospital over this and am desperately trying to keep my unborn twins alive. This all could have been avoided very easily.

The funny thing in this is, my father is one of the largest Volvo dealers in the United States. He is mortified that, in his words, his daughter and grandchildren were almost kileld due to a problem that is widely reported.

So, you and your argumentative self oilburner, can go to hell. I am one of the many who completely disagree with the handling of the situation from Volvo UK. I understand that after this many years, you can expect a problem. What I will not tolerate is the lashings of abuse Volvo UK is putting upon its customers by refusing to fix a problem that is reported to affect over 400,000 cars worldwide. As my own father said, the Americans will be safe whilst the rest of the world is put in danger.

[oilburner]

I'm sorry to hear that, genuinely. I'm willing to be proven wrong, clearly for you, the ETM failure has had serious consequences.

I wasn't trying to make light of serious incidents like this, only to understand whether or not the issue really is as dangerous as people are making out. It is serious and it is dangerous, I accept that now.

I'm not trying to lay any blame here, but in your case, why did the loss of power force you to leave the road? I frequently have to overtake people and would not want to find myself in the same position as you did - if it's unavoidable then I may have to sell my car - I wouldn't want the same accident to happen to my family, that's for sure.

Perhaps I need to explain where I'm coming from here. I'm worried about my family naturally, we don't have money to burn so I have to hold onto my car. I don't want to do that if it's unsafe however.
So, what I've really been trying to acheive is to understand whether or not the ETM issue really is something to be concerned about.

My apologies for being inconsiderate of other peoples feelings here.

However, if people are coming forward and reporting the potentially and actually dangerous situations that this problem has put them in, then it's a good thing - when peoples lives are being put at risk then Volvo should know about it, and others too.

PunkDebutante, I'm sorry to have caused you offence. Would you consider taking your story to BBC Watchdog? I understand you have far more important things to worry about right now, but if Watchdog takes the story seriously and publicise it, Volvo UK might sit up and take notice. If that avoids what happened to you from happening again, I think that would have to be a good thing. At the moment nobody is taking this seriously (me included until now) because they're not seeing how dangerous the effect can be.

Best wishes to your family. I have been in similarly distressing experiences with my family and know how much these things tear you apart like nothing else can.

[sholtby]

I dont have a Volvo with an ETM but the thing that would annoy me the most is that Volvo have not improved the design. ie they just sell you an ETM with the same potential problem.

Simon

[oilburner]

Yeah - that is pretty poor, no denying that.

I wonder whether this whole thing about Volvo refusing to re-call and redesign is down to the fact that they're the only profitable (non-finance) company in the whole Ford Mo Co empire?

Just doing the re-call on 450,000 cars, never mind the redesign would be enough to wipe out Volvo's profit for some time.

Motives? Volvo make money and Ford leaves them alone to get on with their quirky ways or make no money and end up like SAAB?

I can see why Volvo wouldn't want the latter option, it's not within the interests of Volvo employees to put themselves out of a job. From their point of view, if they can contain the fall out and bad publicity (so far they have really) then they may lose a few customers, but that would be made up for be appealing to new customers with the new cars that are on the way?

Sounds dreadful, but could all be true.

I know Ford themselves were happy to do a re-call on faultly Focuses that cut out with no warning, so I don't think Ford themselves are behind Volvo's policy here.

[Bry_fuel]

So what do newer Volvos have?

My 2003 V70 Bi-fuel has a throttle body that looks horribly like that shown on the vexedvolvo web page. I have assumed till now my right foot was physically connected to something. It's a bit worrying to find it's not.

Is my stalling problem related or is it dirt or an air leak?

Have they changed the design to remove the problem?

[scoffbelly]

As an ETM failure victim, I have read with interest, the postings on the differing attitudes to the ETM failure. My conclusions are that on balance, it should be considered a safety defect that justifies a recall. Hypothetically, If Volvo included an ETM replacement every 80k in the service schedule like Cam belt & tensioners then I would understand. The fact is, the device is expected to be safe and maintenance free for the life of the vehicle. A sudden and unexpected throttle failure is surely of the same magnitude as sudden brake failure or steering failure, ie. It is a cause of major and unexpected loss of control of the vehicle.

My ETM failure happened suddenly and without warning or previous symptoms when I was driving in busy traffic on the M3 doing 60mph. My ETM and ETS lights both came on and it was as if my engine had cut out. I put on my hazards and made a desperate attempt to cross two lanes to the hard shoulder, I caused the vehicles behind me to brake hard and sound their horns including an articulated lorry that locked its brakes and began to jackknife. I was lucky to make it to the hard shoulder in one piece.

I wrote to Volvo uk about the problem and I share with you their reply:-

Thank you for your letter dated 1st January 2006. I am sorry to learn of your dissatisfaction due to the failure of the electronic throttle module of your car and I understand your wish to bring the situation regarding this matter in the USA to our attention. With regard to your comments regarding the specific situation in the USA, where this component is subject to an extended warranty action, please allow me to explain that different markets offer different warranties and this is the same with all manufacturers. I would clarify that, should a potential problem with a component or system be identified for cars within a given model and chassis range, technicians at the factory will assess all relevant information and advise us accordingly of the actions to be taken, if necessary. Volvo Car Corporation, as the manufacturer, determines if such an issue is to be a product safety recall, service campaign or a policy action bulletin in accordance with the guidelines issued by the vehicle inspectorate code of practice. Volvo car corporation had been in discussion with the authorities in California prior to this action being taken, although we have not been advised in instigate any product action in respect of this matter in the UK. Whilst I appreciate your concerns, I regret I am unable to meet the request for reimbursement outlined in your letter

yours sincerely.....

so that's that, maybe a letter to Volvo Sweden suggesting that there is sufficient grounds for a product safety recall would be more worthwhile ?

With regard to Oilburners comment "the redesign would be enough to wipe out Volvo's profit for some time", surely Volvo have grounds to seek compensation from Magnetti Marelli for providing a defect part (unless of course it was Volvo designed ??).

[oilburner]

Good post Scoffbelly. That pretty neatly sums up the situation I guess.

Originally Posted by scoffbelly

With regard to Oilburners comment "the redesign would be enough to wipe out Volvo's profit for some time", surely Volvo have grounds to seek compensation from Magnetti Marelli for providing a defect part (unless of course it was Volvo designed ??).

Wasn't the rumour that MM have already gone bust? Even if there's a new company trading as Magnetti Marelli now, Volvo AB wouldn't be able to sue them for problem with parts supplied from the previous incarnation of Magnetti Marelli...

Anyway, as you say, Volvo probably designed, or at least specified the part and Volvo knew about it problems as early as 1998, so it's not like Volvo have been taken by surprise on this.

[tj101c70]

Originally Posted by AGB

I . However I also found that BBA-reman.com offered a remanufacturing service. They charged £250 and repaired the unit in 24 hours. The car seems to run OK and I recommend them to anyone who may need this service.

I have now fitted about 10 genuine ETM units in the last 7-9 months, and getting more,,to the point, that we put a couple of the BBA recon units into stock

Needed them both today, one on a 2000 T5 and another on a 99 V70 2.4, both the recon units would not take the sofeware download !!,
By luck !!!! the local dealer keeps 10 !! units on the shelf, and these were accepted the download with no problems,, 2 ETM to be returned to BBA then

[Chris_Rogers]

As far as I know a 'blank' throttle module can be programmed.
So keeping re-manufactured stock will only be any use if:

You can find a way of 'wiping' the software.

or you use the unit in a car that needs the software already in the unit.