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Setting Points - Why is it so difficult?

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Old Apr 15th, 2018, 23:13   #1
fishyboy
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Default Setting Points - Why is it so difficult?

Hi all,
Why do I find setting point so difficult in my 1968 1800S?

I have always found it really difficult to set the points gap accurately. It seems such a poor set up having to physically rotate the base of the points with a screwdriver. Must have had 4 or 5 separate attempts yesterday before giving up with a dwell reading of 56degrees (from a 0.015inch gap).

I have set Lucas style points with the eccentric screw many times and got it right first time. The Bosch system seems so unrefined.

Am I missing something and is there a better way to set the points gap correctly.

I am tempted to go down the electronic ignition set up (Accuspark) but have been put off due to issues of integration with the armored cable/coil set-up! Maybe its time to bight the bullet.

Phil
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Old Apr 16th, 2018, 00:13   #2
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Only 4 or 5 attempts? That's jolly good It always takes me numerous iterations. It's not the method of moving the points that's the problem, it's the way they like to shift as you tighten the screw...

As regards powering an electronic ignition unit without disturbing the armoured cable... this circuit ought to work, though I haven't tested it.

30 is the live feed to the ignition switch.
54 is the switched live for everything except the coil itself.
50 is the starter control connection.
The relay is a boggo Halfords unit.
The capacitor is to keep the relay energised during any possible hiatus between it receiving a feed from 50 and a feed from 54 as the key rotates. The value 1000uF is a "safe guess". It may work with a smaller value; it may even work without it.
Diodes and capacitor can be obtained from Amazon or ebay probably more cheaply than the minimum order charge from one of the usual electronic component suppliers.
The fuse should be chosen to suit the needs of the electronic ignition module. 10A ought to be OK.
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Old Apr 16th, 2018, 01:46   #3
Ron Kwas
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Phil;

If you are setting points (or trying to!), then you will also want to reset timing, and if you are resetting timing, you will need to loosen the timing clamp on Distributor base to allow it to turn, and if it is allowed to turn, then you can rotate it such that Rubbing block of Points is right on a Lobeshaft high-point (in other words, at max gap)... and that is precisely where you want to set your gap.

...and having made setting the gap simple, you may then proceed with Static Timing as described here: http://www.sw-em.com/Volvo%20Ignitio...tatic%20Timing

"...so difficult"...?...not at all IMO!

I suggest you try again, using technique above and you might not need to consider changing to and elec ign...

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Old Apr 16th, 2018, 02:10   #4
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I just pull the distributor out of the car and set the points on the bench.
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Old Apr 16th, 2018, 08:59   #5
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You're using a good flat screw driver in the notch to open and close the base plate, are you?

My method of doing it is to just loosen the screw enough to be able to just move the base plate, but tight enough that you can run the engine for a few seconds. That way, you can take a reading of the dwell angle and tighten it when its right.

I always set it at the lower end of the dwell angle range (59 degs). Then I periodically hook up my dwell meter to check the gap hasn't reduced giving a reading higher than 65 degs. That way, I get the full use out of a set of points and never have to re-adjust.
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Old Apr 16th, 2018, 09:36   #6
Laird Scooby
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If memory serves correctly, there's no need at all to alter the supply, even with a ballasted system, when converting to Accuspark electronic ignition.

Nothing wrong with Pigeons circuit but almost certainly not needed - check with Accuspark that they have a module suitable for a ballasted system though in case i'm speaking out of turn.

Bosch distributors are notorious for closing the points gap despite proper and careful initial setting. Don't forget a smear of high melting point grease on the cam lobes of the shaft to prevent premature wear on the points heel and once you've set the points to where they should be, check the stroboscopic timing and adjust if necessary.

If you want an unobtrusive conversion, it should be possible to find an electronic ignition set up from a later 240/early 740 with the dizzy mounted on the block (as opposed to the rear end of the camshaft) and convert it that way.

Maybe not as cheap as the Accuspark but would be Volvo branded bits throughout.
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Old Apr 18th, 2018, 09:00   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueosprey90 View Post
I just pull the distributor out of the car and set the points on the bench.
That's what I do.
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Old Apr 18th, 2018, 21:05   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishyboy View Post
Hi all,
Why do I find setting point so difficult in my 1968 1800S?

I have always found it really difficult to set the points gap accurately. It seems such a poor set up having to physically rotate the base of the points with a screwdriver. Must have had 4 or 5 separate attempts yesterday before giving up with a dwell reading of 56degrees (from a 0.015inch gap).

I have set Lucas style points with the eccentric screw many times and got it right first time. The Bosch system seems so unrefined.

Am I missing something and is there a better way to set the points gap correctly.

I am tempted to go down the electronic ignition set up (Accuspark) but have been put off due to issues of integration with the armored cable/coil set-up! Maybe its time to bight the bullet.

Phil
Have you still got the genuine points adjusting screw with the built in spring wavy washer ? That is the secret to tightening the screw without the adjustment changing .......

I have heard accuspark units can and do fail from contacts in other classic car clubs .
I have always said that with a carburettor and set of points and a screw driver you can always get the engine going again if it gives trouble , but with electronic devices you stay where you stop until the tow truck arrives .
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Old Apr 18th, 2018, 22:43   #9
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Swedishandgerman
How high should I go at 2500 rpm? I think you mentioned 36º (with no pinking). I think when i tried it this high it was much higher than 9º at idle. I'll have another go tomorrow and record the numbers. If I can't get 9/36º then ther might be something wrong with the advance weights (no vacuum advance on my JF4U 0 231 170 085 which I think is off a B20A engine).

Clan
Not sure what the "genuine points adjusting screw with the built in spring wavy washer: looks like. The screw looks fairly old but there is no washer. Checked on Brookhouse and in the parts catalogue but couldn't find anything? Any chance of photo to help?

Phil
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Old Apr 19th, 2018, 10:28   #10
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It’s more specific to the engine Phil, so if it’s not a b20a that the 085 is fitted to, you should do well with incrementally adjusting so that you get the results! If you see what I mean

Definitely try it at 36 dogs or so at 2500. If it pinks under load (it probably won’t) then turn it back. I would say usually I set things to 34 ish.

I am much more concerned about the full speed advance than what it does at idle. After all, most of the driving you do is up around 2500 rather than 850 rpm!

For your info, I think 085 advance at idle is something like 12 to 14 degrees. From memory.
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