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1977 Rear calipers

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Old Aug 31st, 2017, 22:19   #1
Bob 1967
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Default 1977 Rear calipers

Hi all, I'm new to the forum.
Just recently I purchased a Jubileum 1977 244.
I have had bikes previously and a 72 280CE and a 90 200TE .
First thing I normally do after purchasing any car is Tyres and brakes.
I put new Uniroyal tyres all round. I took it out 3 times for short runs about 5 miles.
On Tuesday I was pulling up to a red light at a crossroads ,it was a 50kph zone(30 mph approx.)and I had lifted off(automatic ). at about 100 yards I began to apply the brakes (foot went to the floor!)-nothing tried again ,several times pumping - nothing (red light came up "Brake Failure") tried hand brake as last resort-nothing.
I narrowly avoided T boning a car ,I aimed behind him and missed.
I do acknowledge it is my own fault, buyer beware etc. But....
I got the car home and horrors unfolded.
Both rear calipers had had their bleed screws removed and bolts screwed in their place ,they were in effect useless the seals were perished. and pistons seized.
I've already bought a new master cylinder ATE. I plan to do the whole system including all lines.
I am at the moment searching for replacement rear calipers, the originals were Girling (two piston), what I need to know is, are other calipers compatible ?
Lucas etc. and are calipers year specific or will later 240 model calipers fit?

Sorry it was a bit long winded, but it was the most freighting experience I have had while driving.
Bob.
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Old Sep 1st, 2017, 12:36   #2
Stephen Edwin
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I am well pleased that you are alive.

Whoever sold that to you has sold an unroadworthy vehicle.

Ah you are in Ireland. My comments apply in England and Wales but maybe the same for you.

They are liable for that even if they are a private seller, whoever they are, and whatever terms they used, except probably if they sold it as spare parts not as a vehicle. (Sold as Seen is meaningless and an offence for a trade seller.)

Sadly you need some sort of evidence that it was like that when you bought it. Have the machine screws been disturbed or are they corroded in to position? Will Trading Standars show an interest? They might be very interested. Especially for example if they suspect a trade seller masquerading as a private seller.

I wish you every success. Knowledgeable members will doubtless advise you about getting the brakes totally fixed. Gosh. I would worry what else is wrong, especially with the brakes.
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Old Sep 1st, 2017, 16:22   #3
Bugjam1999
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That doesn't sound fun - I had exactly the same experience recently with my 1978 245 just after getting it out of storage, although I had some warning that the brakes weren't all that great and by the time they completely failed as yours did, I wasn't driving quickly and was ready with the handbrake.

I bought a new master cylinder, new spider distribution block and all flexible hoses from Brookhouse Volvo

https://classicvolvoparts.co.uk/

I bought 4 new girling calipers, discs and pads from Brakes International

https://brakeparts.co.uk/

I wasn't intending to change the copper lines, but I damaged some during disassembly - my local garage made up replacements for the three I damaged.

Write up here, with some pics and text about the brakes

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=268976

To answer your question - any year rear brake calipers will fit. The two main styles are Girling (very common) and ATE (less common).

If you decide to replace the front calipers I suggest you buy the later style girling calipers for vented discs, which bolt on to an earlier car that had solid discs just the same (obviously you will need vented discs to go with them).

cheers
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Old Sep 1st, 2017, 17:02   #4
Triple-S
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Bob - I had very similar on the 740 auto I bought from the previous owners widow. After a year + rest it seemed fine so insurance arranged and booked in for an immediate MoT. On my way there total brake failure.....
An auto with no brakes is VERY scary, fortunately I was driving on the rural bit of my journey so quiet. I stopped on handbrake in a parking area and felt the rears - both very hot so I waited a bit. After they cooled the brakes were fine again so considered it was flexible hose failure. I limped to the garage and had replacement calipers plus hoses fitted on the back - and all was fine afterwards.

P
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Old Sep 1st, 2017, 19:39   #5
loki_the_glt
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If the car is anything other than a DL it SHOULD have ventilated front discs. The rear calipers might be the same as used on the front of various 1970's Britsih cars (Marinas, Avengers, Victors, Chevettes) as they use the same pads.
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Old Sep 1st, 2017, 20:52   #6
Bob 1967
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Thanks for the info.
I have ordered a brand new ATE master cylinder.
I have made a few enquiries about rear calipers from ebay Germany, they seem to have a lot more available than other sites. They all gave the same answer "these will only fit 1988 cars on". I'm not so sure ,but I wouldn't like to hand over the cash only to find they don't fit.
I have sent an email to brakeparts, not sure if its an exchange service?
I was looking at re building the old calipers. I have done this before on my 87 BMW R65, 84 Kawasaki GPZ 750A1 and on my 72 Merc 280CE. I even turned out a set of pistons for the GPZ from stainless in my old job on a lathe (they were better than stock).
But I think I will go with new ones, the RHS caliper has a 14mm bolt with(I didn't check with a thread gauge) what looks like a 10mm thread ,it could be UNF or BSP screwed into it ,so is more than likely beyond saving. I don't think a helicoil would work.
I will still need to replace the metal lines from the join at the rear axle.
The rest of the car is pretty sound .The sills look new as does the floor no rot anywhere possibly a recent restoration it even has a brand new exhaust!
It begs the question, Why would someone spend so much on new parts and do something like that with the brakes????
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Old Sep 2nd, 2017, 11:56   #7
Bugjam1999
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Any rear calipers will fit- i took ate rear calipers off my 1978 and put on girling, they're the same calipers as on my 1988. Brakeparts sent out items the same day and they arrived the next, I was very happy with the service from them.

Brakeparts isn't an exchange service as far as I'm aware- I haven't sent anything back to them.

Rebuild kits are available, seals, Pistons etc. I bought all new calipers in the interest of not wanting to experience anything like total brake failure again... If you have time on your side you could rebuild the calipers successfully I'm sure, but as you say the bleed screw threads may be beyond saving on your rear calipers.

Deliberately bodging the brakes does sound odd if the rear of the car is nicely restored/looked after... perhaps a garage was tasked with making them work and they bodged them?

Cheers
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