240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Am I being a bit slow here? So you mean 4 partial changes total - the one I did when I first got the car plus three more - is that right? If that is the case then that is where I'm heading, I've just done #3 (of 4 that I'm planning on this year), it is much redder that the Worcester sauce I started with in February, but not quite cherryade yet.

Stay safe,

Alan

In a word Alan, yes - i'm referring to the potential NEW gearbox.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

In a word Alan, yes - i'm referring to the potential NEW gearbox.

Ahhhhh! The penny has just dropped!

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Perhaps I was a bit ambiguous about the tubular manifold: I hadn't seen one second hand - this is the one I saw advertised. I thought the new price was pretty reasonable for what it is - and just what would be needed to round off the twin choke Weber/AW71 package.

I was just thinking about project costs, perhaps for next year (very round numbers):

Inlet manifold: £200
Weber DGV: £200
Second hand AW70/71 auto box: £200
Tubular exhaust manifold: £400
Other bits (prop shaft? speedo drive?): £200
Service parts (I might aw well change the crank seal and transmission mount while it is apart): £100

Total around £1300 - that sounds like a pretty good investment to make the RB quite a bit more modern without it showing.

I checked my spreadsheet (sad man that I am) the other day and could see all the parts the RB so far have cost me £499 (including service parts like tyres and oil), so we are well within the budget I had in my mind's eye (maybe a couple of grand spread over a 2-4 years).

Stay alert.

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Probably about right there Alan on costs, i'd also allow for doing at least 3 part-changes on the gearbox after the initial fill, no knowing how it was previously treated or what contaminants may be in it.

Also i think i'd try and find a manifold with more consistent primary pipe lengths and even secondary pipe lengths. May be tricky to track down because RHD manifolds have to take into account the fact the steering column is in the way but i would think it's possible.

Propshaft i would guess a 7/940 prop from the same car as the box comes from would be about right but that would need double-checking after careful measurement of the length of the current BW65 box and propshaft. If for example the AW70/71 box is 6" longer and the propshaft is 6" shorter then it's probably a safe bet - the centre bearing position might also have a bit of influence.

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

In a word Alan, yes - i'm referring to the potential NEW gearbox.

Originally Posted by Othen

Ahhhhh! The penny has just dropped!

:-)

I've quoted the first couple of posts that set the scene for whatever misunderstanding got caused, i'm guessing you missed something where i said the initial fill and you wouldn't know how it had previously been treated.

It's sorted now though.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Clifford Pope

I think radiators can become unclearably blocked over time. I've had ones that I've rigorously flushed out with boiling caustic off the car and then backflushed from every hose connection with a garden hose, but they still run too hot.
It's as if the metal sort of swells or grows an immovable deposit which narrows the passages between the cores but also reduces the heat transfer.

There comes a point when getting a new one becomes the best option - they are quite cheap I think, and I have always been surprised how effective a new one is compared with one that I thought was clean.

With a good one you hardly ever need a cooling fan. When some cars back I fitted an electric fan it rarely if ever needed to cut in, just for a very short time on a very hot day or when pulling a heavy load up a long hill, or stuck in an endless slow-movingtraffic jam.
That of course is their danger - when you do need it, it doesn't work.

I was flicking through eBay today, and happened upon (as one does) brand new 240 auto radiators for only £86 delivered (and a 5 year guarantee). I then recalled someone had said something about radiators just getting inexplicably less efficient as they get older - and after a bit of searching found this post by Clifford.

I'm pretty sure my radiator is doing what I expect it to, I've flushed it out (as per the LS method) and can't see any significant damage, but I do rather suppose it is 40 years old.

Bearing in mind what Clifford says above, would I be prudent to just change it for a new item now? Having changed the head, thermostat, pressure cap and water pump recently it would seem short sighted not to swap the radiator for only £86 and so have the whole cooling system in top condition.

Views would be appreciated - if it would be a worthwhile long term investment I'll order a new radiator tomorrow and fit it this week, but if it would be just wasting £86 I'll not.

Stay safe,

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I've quoted the first couple of posts that set the scene for whatever misunderstanding got caused, i'm guessing you missed something where i said the initial fill and you wouldn't know how it had previously been treated.

It's sorted now though.

Thank you Dave - I think I was just being a bit slow and thought you were referring to the BW55 because (by chance) I'd just done a partial change on that one :-)

What do you think of the radiator idea (see the post above). Something Clifford wrote months ago sparked off that thought (plus I didn't appreciate how cheap they are).

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

What do you think of the radiator idea (see the post above). Something Clifford wrote months ago sparked off that thought (plus I didn't appreciate how cheap they are).

Alan

Mixed thoughts at the moment to be honest Alan. What is the price difference on a manual rad for a 240?

Don't panic, there's a lot of logic in the (apparent) lunacy of that question!

Also, what sort of overall condition is your present rad in? Are all the fins intact, particularly those towards the bottom of the rad? If so, you can almost certainly leave it for now. However, if the fins are beginning to make (or have made already made) a bid for freedom then it's going to need renewing at some point in the near ish future.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Mixed thoughts at the moment to be honest Alan. What is the price difference on a manual rad for a 240?

Don't panic, there's a lot of logic in the (apparent) lunacy of that question!

Also, what sort of overall condition is your present rad in? Are all the fins intact, particularly those towards the bottom of the rad? If so, you can almost certainly leave it for now. However, if the fins are beginning to make (or have made already made) a bid for freedom then it's going to need renewing at some point in the near ish future.

Many thanks Dave,

The price differential to a 240 is just £4 (from the same company). I'm guessing you might thinking forward to changing to a separate cooler for the transmission some time in the future (4 speed box?). I think we should cross that bridge when we come to it I'm happy to use the standard one now and if need be splash out another £60 for the correct item if it turns out to be necessary in 2-3 year's time.

The radiator looks more or less okay to me, there are a couple of small mechanical dings here and there, mainly on the back where some clumsy mechanic (probably me) has been working, but overall it looks good from the outside.

I'm more thinking about what Clifford said: that radiators somehow seem to get a bit less efficient as they get older. When I have replaced bits around the car I noticed quite a lot of limescale build up (particularly in the old water pump - lumps of it) - nothing nefarious, just 40 years of standing in water (previous owners may well not have used EG). Bear in mind this is a pretty low mileage car - on average only 2,500 miles/year - so there may have been long periods where it hardly moved in the past. I'm wondering whether Clifford is right and the very same limescale has coated the inside of the radiator matrix and reduced its overall efficiency a bit? In household radiators limescale can reduce efficiency by 50% over time).

I've never needed to buy a radiator for a car previously, but have on bikes, where they are much more exposed (hence get more mechanical damage) and far more expensive (one tends to have to buy the OEM part as nothing else fits in the space). I must admit I'd never looked into car radiator prices, and I had it in my mind's eye that one would be £200-£300 (typical bike cost); I was amazed to see that one may be had from a UK supplier with a 5 year guarantee for 60ish quid. At that price it seems entirely sensible to change the original out for a new one and re-gain that lost efficiency.

So, that is where I'm coming from Dave: I don't know much about the RB's past, but having got it running nicely I'd like it to have a good future. I've replaced 80% of the cooling system and I'm surprised how cheap a new radiator would be, so I would certainly be happy spending 60 quid on the final 20% to make sure everything is as good as I can make it.

What do you think? Clifford's words keep ringing in my ears - and my gut feeling is to spend £60 to finish the picture now (and if I change to a 4 speed box at some later date just factor the right solution for that into the project costs then).

Long response from me- it must be early in the morn :-)

PS. I've just noticed my typo in the post above - the new radiator is only £68, not £86.

[Clifford Pope]

Originally Posted by Othen

What do you think? Clifford's words keep ringing in my ears .

Golly - fame !

Another thought is that vigorous flushing to clear the passages may well be at the expense of clearing out ancient deposits that were helping to keep it watertight. I've certainly flushed out blocked radiators in the past and then found they leaked - possibly of course the flushing also removed old radweld.

I suppose the best thing is to try it but watch it very carefully, as too the temperature of course. It's easy enough to swap later. Although I can't remember if yours is an automatic? That's an added complication I think, I've no experience of.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Clifford Pope

Golly - fame !

Another thought is that vigorous flushing to clear the passages may well be at the expense of clearing out ancient deposits that were helping to keep it watertight. I've certainly flushed out blocked radiators in the past and then found they leaked - possibly of course the flushing also removed old radweld.

I suppose the best thing is to try it but watch it very carefully, as too the temperature of course. It's easy enough to swap later. Although I can't remember if yours is an automatic? That's an added complication I think, I've no experience of.

Good morn Clifford,

I thought I was the only early morn correspondent to this thread :-) thank you.

My car is an auto, which means there are two additional connections for the gearbox cooling circuit. This doesn't look in any way difficult (although 40 year old cars have an ability to make the simplest job difficult).

I should say I'm not really concerned about the thermal management, I took the Royal Barge on a 35 mile run to check everything after changing the head, thermostat and pressure cap the other day and the gauge stayed in the middle, rising very slightly on a long uphill stretch in Rutland and whilst standing in some traffic in Upingham. It was a warm day (24C I think).

As you may read above, having got the RB running nicely I'm thinking I could get it 100% right for only £68 - and I recalled your post from some months ago (as above).

Stay safe.

Alan

[john.wigley]

The integral ATF cooler can and does fail, Alan, often without external indication. This will inevitably result in cross-contamination of the coolant and ATF; an undesirable situation with potentially disastrous consequences.

That alone is a very good reason for changing the rad, but, be warned, those two little ATF pipe connections can be a real pain in the backside!

If I were you, I think that for what it costs, I would buy one, but not fit it until I had to.

Regards, John.