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Cheap Shell engine oil

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Old Aug 12th, 2017, 12:15   #11
skyship007
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Originally Posted by luggsey View Post
Just to add my experience of Shell Helix in a high miles diesel, I use 5/30 helix ultra and flush with liqui moly before oil change which is annual 5k ish miles.
After using liqui moly the engine oil stays cleaner for longer which I notice when checking the dip stick.
I'm a convert to liqui moly and shell helix and mann filters and in combo, it's made my lazy lifters work better and quieter.
Using the LM flush intended for use at idle RPM just before an oil & filter change is good news (Unless you have any oil leaks which it might make worse for a while).
A 5w30 is thicker than an 0w30 when the oil is warm (Complicated explanation to do with the way SAE groups are defined), but for an older worn diesel, or one that does long oil change intervals, an 0 or 5w40 would be better.
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Old Aug 12th, 2017, 14:44   #12
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Originally Posted by skyship007 View Post
The engine oil in a petrol engine should defintely not turn black, even after 10K miles, ... Petrol engine oil does turn a sort of dark brown in some cases, but often looks like new oil when changed.
Haha, amazing isn't it, how experiences vary. Apart from a few commercial vehicles, I've always run petrol cars. And I've yet to find one whose oil doesn't turn black, or at least very dark brown. On the dipstick it looks golden, but put it in a jar and it's nowhere near as transparent as when it went in. I usually change mine annually, and I've been using 10/40 semi-synthetic.
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Old Aug 12th, 2017, 22:18   #13
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Haha, amazing isn't it, how experiences vary. Apart from a few commercial vehicles, I've always run petrol cars. And I've yet to find one whose oil doesn't turn black, or at least very dark brown. On the dipstick it looks golden, but put it in a jar and it's nowhere near as transparent as when it went in. I usually change mine annually, and I've been using 10/40 semi-synthetic.
Nearly all modern petrol engines are design spec for some kind of Xw20 or 30 grade.
Volvo only listed Magnetec 10w40 as OEM dealer spec (Not the same as design spec) because it was OK for any of the V40 engines.

10w oils have a cold pour point of around minus 25C and that means that they should not be used for cold starts below minus 15C, as that is the temp when the slower oil flow and increased oil filter bypass time results in more main block wear (Not good for the turbo bearings in particular). Above that temp the only real issue is how much more effort is required by the battery and starter motor during cold starts.
Most newer cars have weaker starter motors and smaller batteries than they did in the old days, as they are easier to start due to modern ignition or injection systems. The use of 0 or 5wX oils also reduces the electrical loads during cold starts.

If I had a petrol V40, I would use a major brand full synthetic 10w30 longlife oil during the summer and an 0w30 during the winter.

A 10w30 will last longer than an 0 or 10w40 in residual viscosity terms, cos it contains less viscosity improver (VI) additives. Those additive are a negative factor in resisting high temp shearing of the oil in the turbo bearings in particular. That means the oil with the least VI's will not thin out as much, so can be used for longer IF it contains enough detergent additives and it not subject to too much fuel, Silicon (Bad air filters) or anti freeze contamination.
Many good 10w30's finish up thicker than 0w40 oils at the end of a typical 5 to 10K mile OCI.

Most petrol engines can use 0 or 5w20 oils during the winter if the OCI is not too long. The 0w20's are used a lot in the USA to help fuel economy figures, but I would not use them during the summer, particularly if you have a big right boot or tow a heavy box or caravan.
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Old Aug 13th, 2017, 16:41   #14
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All that might be true, I s'pose. You certainly sound like you've done your homework. Our car is still on the same starter-motor and battery it had when we bought it, six or seven years ago. It's coming up to 180,000 miles now.

In that regard, starter motor and battery longevity seems pretty good. And definately cheaper than expensive oils and more frequent changes.

This is a 20 year old car, and it's on it's last legs. I'm expecting to retire it from duty within a year. It'll get rock-bottom price 10/40 oil, and it'll just have to do. No way am I spending twice as much on (Ha!) "magnetic" oil. Might as claim to have fairy dust as an ingerdient.

No sludge in my engine either. I know because last year I had it down to it's component parts almost. I think you have too much faith in all these detergents and additive, personally. They should call it snake oil.
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Old Aug 14th, 2017, 08:33   #15
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All that might be true, I s'pose. You certainly sound like you've done your homework. Our car is still on the same starter-motor and battery it had when we bought it, six or seven years ago. It's coming up to 180,000 miles now.

In that regard, starter motor and battery longevity seems pretty good. And definately cheaper than expensive oils and more frequent changes.

This is a 20 year old car, and it's on it's last legs. I'm expecting to retire it from duty within a year. It'll get rock-bottom price 10/40 oil, and it'll just have to do. No way am I spending twice as much on (Ha!) "magnetic" oil. Might as claim to have fairy dust as an ingerdient.

No sludge in my engine either. I know because last year I had it down to it's component parts almost. I think you have too much faith in all these detergents and additive, personally. They should call it snake oil.
Cheap oils that are changed often enough can keep the block clean (Unless the HG has a leak etc), BUT the most common issue for the V40 engines is not sludge but top end varnish. The real area of interest is the turbo oil feed pipe, as varnish forms more readily in hot areas and that pipe does get rather warm.

Obviously it's not possible to inspect the turbo oil feed pipe to see if it has varnished up and it's also not easy to measure the oil pressure supplied to it. If there is any degree of restriction to it or the oil feed pressure is low because of more general wear or sludge in the oil system, the turbo bearings are not going to last anything like as long as the main block.

I have never inspected my turbo feed pipe, or measured it's inlet oil pressure, so I try to make sure it is 100% clean AND that the turbo bearings have the best possible layer of anti wear additives to protect them from initial cold start or even hot shut down issues.
To do that means using an oil that will not allow top end varnish to form AND has the best possible anti wear additives (Some of them are in reality friction or extreme pressure modifyers.

My old V40 diesel gets subject to the most appaling abuse, like hot and heavy horse box towing (High bearing loads), cold start abuse, short tripping and the one that really does murder older turbo bearings, the dreaded autobahn emergency pee stop.
"She who must be obeyed", drove me to Munich airport a few months and due to the fact that there was very little traffic she drove at max continous RPM (The handbook says it's 4000 for the 1.9D) which seems to be around the 100 mph mark, so not possible in the UK. I was real pleased we were burning the cylinders, EGR, turbo and even CAT clean, BUT nearly cried when she turned off into a service station and switched off, 4000 RPM to zero in about 15 seconds!

The only reason the turbo bearings have not failed yet is that they are protected by a combined layer of mostly Zinc and Boron Nitride (Hexagonal form used in Ceratec). Not sure how much Moly is in that layer, but that additive also helps in run dry situations.

Using a good oil, filter and change intervals matched to the condition and useage is a very sensible insurance policy.

PS: Using a major brand full synthetic oil will remove pre existing varnish deposits, BUT it will take quite a number of OCI's to do a good job. It's far more effective to use a good flush additive just before the oil and filter are changed (Can result in an increase in the drip rate of any oil leaks for a while). Mobil 0w40 (A3/B4) has about double the detergents of a typical 10w40 like the old Mag 10w40, so is one of the better cleaners.
Never use drive around flush additive like Marvel Mystery Oil, as they can easily damage the engine.
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Everyone should DYOR (Do Your Own Research)

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